Important news.

[Knox]

Psy said: I can understand basically what you're saying (I don't agree with it, but still), so where exactly do you draw the line? Someone who has been there for 6 months? 12 months? Posted 200 times? How is the average member to know whether or not they can break the rules without retribution?

To this, I say: That depends. I just think people are getting too rule-heavy with this. There should be no "now that I'm THIS old on the forum, I can do THIS and get away with it"; however, I disagree with the fact that a trip up basically seals his fate. Administrative staff knows him; therefore, based on his character, I think exception can be made depending on their ultimate decision.

It's just how I feel about it, like I said. I don't agree with super heavy rule system. Here - maybe this will help explain it a little better, whether you agree or not.

WesM 118 (8:09:20 PM): The crux of my argument:
WesM 118 (8:09:22 PM): "Rules that are meant to apply to everyone should apply to everyone."
Imnotusnit (8:10:07 PM): I don't agree with rules like that anyway, really.
Imnotusnit (8:10:14 PM): I think it should be called SOP.
WesM 118 (8:10:20 PM): We're not arguing whether that rule is right or not!
WesM 118 (8:10:25 PM): That's not the issue.
Imnotusnit (8:10:25 PM): no no.
Imnotusnit (8:10:29 PM): Not that specific rule.
Imnotusnit (8:10:36 PM): The "Rules that apply to everyone" part.
Imnotusnit (8:10:50 PM): Rather, it should be classified as standard operating procedure.
WesM 118 (8:10:57 PM): So...you don't think someone that posts code to crash browsers should be banned?
WesM 118 (8:11:00 PM): ...huh?
WesM 118 (8:11:05 PM): Oh, hahahaha
Imnotusnit (8:11:07 PM): Have you never dealt with SOP?
Imnotusnit (8:11:17 PM): Or had you just not gotten to that yet :P
WesM 118 (8:11:26 PM): No, I hadn't gotten to that part yet. :P
WesM 118 (8:11:32 PM): Hence the "Oh, hahahaha"
Imnotusnit (8:11:32 PM): SOP makes it so that a rulebook has less power than an admin
Imnotusnit (8:11:47 PM): The rules exist, but the admin is the deciding factor
WesM 118 (8:11:56 PM): I agree. And I agree that things should be judged on an individual basis
Imnotusnit (8:11:59 PM): That gives room for said admin to be biased, however...
Imnotusnit (8:12:07 PM): That's why EOFF is (was?) a five headed dragon
WesM 118 (8:12:08 PM): However, judging this as an individual basis, there's no reason not to ban him\
Imnotusnit (8:13:14 PM): If EOFF were the army, Kishi could probably get an article 15 for that.
WesM 118 (8:13:24 PM): ...and what's that?
Imnotusnit (8:13:28 PM): But seeing as how he's been promoted a lot already, we're not gonna treat him like a private
Imnotusnit (8:13:33 PM): his TIS speaks for itself...
Imnotusnit (8:13:43 PM): Therefore, punitive action not including discharge
Imnotusnit (8:13:53 PM): Article 15 is non judicial punishment, basically.
WesM 118 (8:13:58 PM): ...
Imnotusnit (8:14:03 PM): You lose rank, money, do some extra duty, whatever the commander feels like.
WesM 118 (8:14:07 PM): you've been in the service WAY too long.
Imnotusnit (8:14:12 PM): But you don't get dishonorably discharged.
Imnotusnit (8:14:18 PM): No, I've been in the service for half a year
Imnotusnit (8:14:24 PM): I just have to deal with it EVERY day
WesM 118 (8:14:27 PM): xD

[eestlinc]

I think all this anger and debate and frustration just shows how important EoFF is to everyone here, including the staff. This really shakes the foundation of the forums, so I think we should be fair to Shlup and Yams and clout and whoever else doesn't want to rush to judgment.

Things will be all right, I hope.

[Raistlin]

I think all this anger and debate and frustration just shows how important EoFF is to everyone here, including the staff. This really shakes the foundation of the forums, so I think we should be fair to Shlup and Yams and clout and whoever else doesn't want to rush to judgment.

Things will be all right, I hope.

Rush to judgment? Peter didn't get this kind of discussion! Neither did Baloki, or Hoot, or anyone else.

The fact of the matter is that staff has told us time and time again that if anyone posted porn, they'd get banned - no matter who they were, that the rules apply to everyone equally. Now when it actually comes down to it, they don't?

Unclesimpson35: People say things, but when it comes down to it, You see who really sticks to it. Apparently.

I, for one, would not want anyone on staff who doesn't stick by the rules they preach.

[Yamaneko]

I guess, to some of the staff, those are just words.

They're not just words, Raist, but it's hard to find a parallel between Kishi and some guy who joins just to post goatse. And again, I'm not saying Kishi should not be banned for what he did. But I do think Shlup deserves a chance to explain herself. That's all I'm saying.

EDIT: The people you mentioned got discussion.

[Raistlin]

They're not just words, Raist, but it's hard to find a parallel between Kishi and some guy who joins just to post goatse. And again, I'm not saying Kishi should not be banned for what he did. But I do think Shlup deserves a chance to explain herself. That's all I'm saying.

I've been talking to Shlup since yesterday! She's explained herself as well as she's able to to me, as far as I can tell.

And you're right - there is no parallel. But the fact of the matter is, no matter how some people try to avoid it, is that if I, for example, posted that image, than I'd be gone, and Kishi's not? That's not right.

Also: staff has been telling us for YEARS that no one, except Cid, is above the rules, and that if ANYONE, including current staff members did it, then they'd be banned. Remember that controversy when Bleys was on staff about how he was getting away with things? Now it's time to prove that staff isn't just all talk on the matter of no favoritism.

[eestlinc]

well, there's obviously a lot of emotion involved.

[Killy]

I find this whole thing disturbing, as I cant sort out how I feel on this issue. I mean I like Kishi's comments, and I like things to be fair.

[\My two cents.]

[-N-]

Good for you, guy. Unfortunately, you're not the only one who wants to hear from her.

edit: To Raist. Posts pop up like bunny rabbits mating here.

[crono_logical]

I pledge to do whatever I can in the best interest of EoFF, no matter my personal feelings on the matter.

And if it's in the best interest of EoFF to keep Kishi, then what? Are you still gonna yell at us for letting him get away with something someone else wouldn't have? Well, perhaps it does show that our rules aren't perfect as they stand

[Raistlin]

And if it's in the best interest of EoFF is to keep Kishi, then what? Are you still gonna yell at us for letting him get away with something someone else wouldn't have? Well, perhaps it does show that our rules aren't perfect as they stand

I consider following the rules and policy that have been followed and enforced faithfully for the past 5 years(made by Cid himself, I might add) to be "in the best interest of EoFF." EoFF won't fall apart without Kishi.

[Raistlin]

I love you, Doomsday.

Oh, and this was no "slip-up" in the sense of, say, Peter. It was a very big lapse of judgment. And for that, the same consequences must apply.

[strawberryman]

Oh, and this was no "slip-up" in the sense of, say, Peter. It was a very big lapse of judgment. And for that, the same consequences must apply.

How could it be a slip-up in the first place?
How hard is it to remember a few file names or URL's?
that's what Copy & Paste is for anyways.

[Raistlin]

It wasn't a "slip-up"? Then I must have misunderstood something. Actually, all this means is that this doesn't deserve a thread. He should have been banned without question, which is, like I've said before, very unfortunate. All Kishi did was improve these forums in every possible way. However, he posted porn, and that is that. I can just imagine what will happen when Kishi wake's up and finds this thread.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING SINCE YESTERDAY!!!

Alas, to no avail. It seems that Staff cracks from its standards when the time actually comes for a hard decision.

EDIT:

How could it be a slip-up in the first place?
How hard is it to remember a few file names or URL's?
that's what Copy & Paste is for anyways.

It wasn't a slip-up in the sense that he meant to post the image in question.

[eestlinc]

Raist, why do you hate the staff so much? They're just human.

[Yamaneko]

The image was suggestive, but not pornographic.