Important news.

[Nic]

I know I don't post here very often. I doubt most of the people here even know who I am anymore, aside from the #eoffers. But because of LJ and of course #eoff, I ended up here, reading this whole damn thread.

I'd just like to know one thing. Maybe it's been said somewhere, but what the HELL was Kishi thinking? Everyone seems to agree that he meant to post the pic in question (which I've seen, and honestly I don't see how anyone could mistake it for "borderline"), and didn't do so with the intention of getting banned. So what was the purpose of posting it? Seeing as he's a CK, I think it's safe to say he should've known it wasn't suitable for the forums. So whahubbawha?

[Citizen Bleys]

I dunno, I saw the image, too--I don't think it was borderline, I think it was well over on the "OK" side of the line. There were no genitalia depicted, unless you call a random swirl of paint that looks more like a freshly-stirred cup of coffee than anything else "genitalia." Back when I was on staff, I wouldn't have banned freakin' Jacques for that, leave alone one of the longest-serving staff members in EoFF history.

And that "coward" comment made me lose a lot of respect for you, Del. But I guess you wouldn't care what a coward who resigned has to say anyways.

Oh by the way, I left specific instructions in my LJ not to burn down the freakin' internet while I was off in Halifax. The whole bloody internet except EoFF seems to be OK with that.

[Rainecloud]

EoFF = England in the 1800's. Eg - one giant farce.

Those in power look out for others who are their friends, and that's about it. The regular members who contribute and work hard to make this place great are either ignored or criticized. This has always been the EoFF way, as far as I can tell, and it's only gotten worse in recent years.

Hope you all sort your problems out, loves.

[Ashister]

New here obviously, though I have the pleasure of knowing Raist, Bleys, BoB, eest and others outside these fora. The stench of this conflict has been pretty apparent to me recently, despite the fact that I'm not an EoFFer, and I've finally sat down tonight and checked out what all the fuss is about.

Now I'm here to voice my support (for what it's worth) for ShlupQuack, BoB, Bleys, Yams, eest and the others who have supported Kishi in this thread and elsewhere. As someone who has moderated and administrated discussion fora in the past I feel that what was done to Kishi was unjust.

Rules and authority are necessary in real life to prevent real problems and protect real lives, that much is true. But the same cannot be said in a discussion forum, and to be a good authority figure in a forum, you can't take yourself, or the idea of a forum, too seriously. I think in in this case, Kishi was hurt because some were taking themselves and this forum business a bit too seriously. Like ShlupQuack said, get outside and find out what's actually important. This stuff certainly isn't. Not important enough to condone what happened.

The administrator/moderator status is there for good reason. Banning Kishi as an alternative to admitting that Peter and others probably shouldn't have been banned is NOT good reason. Its true that its unfair for Kishi to be extended this mercy when Peter and others weren't, but this silliness has to stop somewhere. Otherwise you'll lose more invaluable members - the lifeblood of this forum - in the future. You still claim to have the forum's interests in mind when you did this?

The insta-ban rule probably looked good when the rules were written up, but there comes a time where you have to realize: life's not black and white enough for no-exceptions uniformity to work all the time. Pornography = ban is a good idea, a good guideline, but snow penises and Masamune Shirow artwork? Give me a fricking break.

I think Kishi should get an apology for this silliness before you guys kill EoFF even more.

[Ultima Shadow]

I never bothered to read trough all the posts since this tread seems to grow at the speed of light... but like EEST said in an earlier post, this tread shows how important EoFF is to many members here. I'm not an exception. It may be hard to understand to some, but EoFF is a big and very important part of my life. I agree with both sides. I understand how BoB and Shlup feels about this and why they think Kishi shouldn't be banned. I, myself, really hates to see great members being banned just like that. But still... Raistlin, Big D and everyone else are not wrong either. It really IS unfair that Kishi should be able to do something like this without staying banned when any regular member would have stayed banned. No matter status, that's not fair.

The mods should be able to judge by themselves to some degree and not have to do exactly like the rules tells them to do all the time whenever they feel it's right or wrong. Still... they can't be completely free to do whatever they feel like and they can't just break the rules. In my opinion... Kishi should not be banned BUT the rules should also not be as strict as they are at the moment. There IS a difference betweene completely unacceptable, disscusting pornography and snow penis. When it comes to the later, I really think a warning should be enough... or maybe a 2 months ban. I'm sure not many people on EoFF really would find the picture peter got banned for posting is discussting at all. Ofcourse, it's not a very nice thing to do... but permanent banning? Seriously... chill out! If Kishi remains unbanned, then peter really should be unbanned as well. I'm saying this because I know how important EoFF is to some people. Some of you may just say: "There's alot of other forums out there, get over it!" But it's really not that easy for those who love this place and have alot of important friends here. I'm against Kishi being banned, not because of who he is, but because he don't deserve to be banned for what he did. But neither did peter and some other banned members.

Argh... I just can't make up my mind and I probably just sound confusing... but I'm not a ban-suporter in any case as long as it's not a member who starts spamming and acting offensive 1min after joining.

My only solid opinion is: unbann everyone who was unfairly banned and didn't deserve permanent banning!!!

I really hope I make sense... which I probably don't... but whatever.

[edczxcvbnm]

I think Kishi should get an apology for this silliness before you guys kill EoFF even more.

Or we could kill it. Lets try something new. Who knows...maybe some good will come of it!

[FightClubFan#47]

Im Honestly surprised they didn't make Kishi Admin. Hell, I'm surprised they didnt kill Cid and give Kishi is place.

[edczxcvbnm]

We don't know that. For all we know the forces that be could very well be plotting.

[Psychotic]

I dunno, I saw the image, too--I don't think it was borderline, I think it was well over on the "OK" side of the line. There were no genitalia depicted, unless you call a random swirl of paint that looks more like a freshly-stirred cup of coffee than anything else "genitalia." Back when I was on staff, I wouldn't have banned freakin' Jacques for that, leave alone one of the longest-serving staff members in EoFF history.

I've seen it, and I would definitely say it's worse than a snow penis. But c'est la vie.

[Raistlin]

The administrator/moderator status is there for good reason. Banning Kishi as an alternative to admitting that Peter and others probably shouldn't have been banned is NOT good reason.

Of course it's not. But banning him because it's the right thing to do according to EoFF's values and principles for the past 5 1/2 years is. I couldn't give a damn about Peter.

As someone who has moderated and administrated discussion fora in the past I feel that what was done to Kishi was unjust.

Unjust? He broke the rules, he's responsible for his own actions, and, according to what Staff has said on numerous occasions, staff members are subject to the rules just as much as other members. You may have staffed on other forums, but other forums have different rules and policies.
It was unjust not to even consider punishing Kishi for breaking the rules - not even a suspension or anything. But a freebie because the Staff didn't want to punish him.

But the same cannot be said in a discussion forum, and to be a good authority figure in a forum, you can't take yourself, or the idea of a forum, too seriously. I think in in this case, Kishi was hurt because some were taking themselves and this forum business a bit too seriously. Like ShlupQuack said, get outside and find out what's actually important. This stuff certainly isn't. Not important enough to condone what happened.

NOT banning Kishi because it's only a forum and thus it doesn't matter if the rules are bent is not a good reason. If it's "only a forum" then his contributions to it hardly matter, and it wouldn't really matter if he was banned. Your side says "get a life" because we take EoFF too seriously, well, if you're willing to throw basic rules and principles aside for Kishi, then I think you're taking things too seriously as well.

The administrator/moderator status is there for good reason.

Status? You talk as if being a moderator is a privilege. It's a responsibility.

The insta-ban rule probably looked good when the rules were written up, but there comes a time where you have to realize: life's not black and white enough for no-exceptions uniformity to work all the time. Pornography = ban is a good idea, a good guideline, but snow penises and Masamune Shirow artwork? Give me a fricking break.

Wait...now you're defending Peter?

Oh, and I agree by the way. However, an exception should not be made for one person where one wasn't made for another. Period.

I think Kishi should get an apology for this silliness before you guys kill EoFF even more.

According to many others, including ex-staff, we're not the ones killing EoFF.

I dunno, I saw the image, too--I don't think it was borderline, I think it was well over on the "OK" side of the line.

You're the only person who's said that. The Staff admitted that anyone else would be banned for it...but not Kishi? I would agree whole-heartedly if the image would be okay for everyone to post.

Staff made it clear time and again that no one was an exception to the rules outside of Cid - both administrators and moderators alike. But then all of a sudden that doesn't apply?
Staff said the image was "border-line," however, also admitted that anyone else who posted that same image would be banned. So obviously, the image is not "border-line", it's only that way for Kishi. Which isn't right.
Staff members accept the responsibility of upholding the rules. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, especially staff members. Saying that people who've been around long enough are not responsible for their own actions is absurd.

This'll be the last post I make on the subject. Why bother? According to Staff, the members' opinions don't matter. Well, at least, that's what Shlup's said over and over again.

[edczxcvbnm]

This'll be the last post I make on the subject. Why bother? According to Staff, the members' opinions don't matter. Well, at least, that's what Shlup's said over and over again.

But as they have proven it doesn't matter what they say over and over again because they will just change their minds on the matter when they want to.

[Flamethrower]

I saw the picture. I honestly don't think it was that bad, and like Bleys said, I wouldn't permanently ban anybody for posting it. Then again, I also wouldn't permanently ban anyone for posting a snow penis, but hey...

I like the idea of temporary bans. I think something like a three month ban would be a fair punishment for people who post "borderline" porn. I hardly see it fair to kick any member, whether it be a long term staffer like Kishi or a newbie like Peter, permanently out of our community for making a mistake.

[Ultima Shadow]

I like the idea of temporary bans. I think something like a three month ban would be a fair punishment for people who post "borderline" porn. I hardly see it fair to kick any member, whether it be a long term staffer like Kishi or a newbie like Peter, permanently out of our community for making a mistake.

*agrees*

[edczxcvbnm]

Good luck with temp bans. I have been pushing for that for years. They say "We give them warnings and for everything else such as porn it is an insta-ban. No exceptions."

Then again since their word now means nothing maybe we can get those temp bans I have been wanting.

[RSL]

The image isn't borderline. It's not very bad at all. I wouldn't want anyone banned for it. The snow penis might have been borderline except for the fact that it was very realistic.

Maybe I'm playing favorites but I don't think I am.