Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums > Reference > General Archive > World of EoFF (Eizon) > The Races

[Nait]

Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Is timeframe the only thing you have a problem with? We can say it took a few more years, just not thousands, because that's ridiculous to say that they'll exist on the planet for thousands of years and still be in medieval stages.

But they couldn't keep a medieval technological level. Technology requires cities and nations, which we won't have without enough people.

As for the world and how they live, just assume that it's got a hell of a lot of livestock floating around the place, not to mention fish and of course edible vegetation.

Livestock must be domesticated. Othervise it's not livestock. And not reliable to reproduce in captivity. It took thousands of years to get cows from aurochs, reindeer from... Other reindeer, and so forth.
And of course, edible vegetation hardly can cope with the needs of civilisation. You need lots of that vegetation, and that means domestication - domesticated plants are HUGE compared to wild species, which makes it possible to survive on them.

You put a family on a resourceful island for a couple of years and if they have the knowledge, they can build themselves a house and breed chickens and eat the fruit. There won't be every single person from the medieval ages, it's not going to be a hugely populated world at the beginning, just spread out, that's all.

But that's not a nation. That family will either die out, or form a population for a small island - AND there is not enough genetic diversity! You'll have inbred island idiots who wouldn't know a coconut from riverbed rocks. You need LARGE populations for nations and civilisation - that is why there are no nations of tribes, but nations of peasants.

I'm happy to change the time for nations to come into action, though, if it suits your personal mindset.

It's not the technology, because technology won't be on the minds of starving people trying to survive in the wild. Technology will disappear, and slowly grow - maybe even to the medieval levels you are supposing. It's the infrastructure. No survival without domesticates! No nations without survival. Nations are born when there are people, specialised jobs and and not anarchial tribalism. Which is what we'll have if these people are dumped into the wilderness.

[Loony BoB]

Originally Posted by Nait

But that's not a nation. That family will either die out, or form a population for a small island - AND there is not enough genetic diversity! You'll have inbred island idiots who wouldn't know a coconut from riverbed rocks. You need LARGE populations for nations and civilisation - that is why there are no nations of tribes, but nations of peasants.

*bangs his head on his desk* That was an example of how quickly people can adapt, not what I'm expecting to happen. I was referring to that book, the Swiss Family Robinson or whatever. I'm just saying that if you take someone away from technology it doesn't mean that it will take them hundreds of years to learn how to breed a freaking chicken. xP

But they couldn't keep a medieval technological level. Technology requires cities and nations, which we won't have without enough people.

Livestock must be domesticated. Othervise it's not livestock. And not reliable to reproduce in captivity. It took thousands of years to get cows from aurochs, reindeer from... Other reindeer, and so forth.
And of course, edible vegetation hardly can cope with the needs of civilisation. You need lots of that vegetation, and that means domestication - domesticated plants are HUGE compared to wild species, which makes it possible to survive on them.

Gather 100 people to one area. That could take, what, a month or so? So you have 100 people and you have a leader from the past world, someone they can look to. They work together and build a town, have people spending days scouting areas and not domesticating but hunting food, American Indian style. They can breed chickens, too, that's not exactly a difficult thing to do, to be honest. Maybe some of the animals aren't that wild in the first place? And rabbits! Or some other created creature - there could be a creature that breeds faster than even rabbits. With all the nutrients you could ask for. Food all over the place! Easy. So you have the food to support 200 people because they work together in such ways. They expand over areas, making tracks and making stone walls and all that crap. Blah blah blah.

And how do you know it took thousands of years to domesticate the cow? You're going by neanderthal eras again, and assuming the big bang took place. I think a lot of people wouldn't be gunning on the big bang after this one. Just because I haven't got any set religion doesn't mean that this world wasn't created by a god/gods.

It's not the technology, because technology won't be on the minds of starving people trying to survive in the wild. Technology will disappear, and slowly grow - maybe even to the medieval levels you are supposing. It's the infrastructure. No survival without domesticates! No nations without survival. Nations are born when there are people, specialised jobs and and not anarchial tribalism. Which is what we'll have if these people are dumped into the wilderness.

Okay, when I said there won't be many people, I meant it won't be the populations of five worlds (ie, at least ten billion people) all sent over. Consider it to be millions over the world.

And finally, Nait, keep in mind that we have races from five different worlds that have been seemingly magically transferred to a new world. This thing isn't exactly supposed to be realistic by Earthly terms.

EDIT: Idea. Everyone apart from Nait can ignore this if they wish. We are at a medieval stage of technology on this world. They still remember the old world(s). That is that. If you are Nait, assume that one year on this planet is 100 years on Earth. If you are not Nait, you probably don't give a rat's arse anyway so let's just have fun, eh?

[Nait]

Originally Posted by Loony BoB

*bangs his head on his desk* That was an example of how quickly people can adapt, not what I'm expecting to happen. I was referring to that book, the Swiss Family Robinson or whatever. I'm just saying that if you take someone away from technology it doesn't mean that it will take them hundreds of years to learn how to breed a freaking chicken. xP

Yes, they adapt to be hunter-gatherers. Exactly my point, who needs a better horsecollar when there are no horses?

Gather 100 people to one area. That could take, what, a month or so? So you have 100 people and you have a leader from the past world, someone they can look to. They work together and build a town, have people spending days scouting areas and not domesticating but hunting food, American Indian style.

But American Indians did NOT live in Cities. 100 people isn't a city - it's not even a TOWN, it's a frikking village. If you're saying AZTEC or INCA style, well, that's a whole other story, because the City Builders of America had A) Domesticated animals and and agriculture, B) A whole frikking lot more people than plain or Amazon indiand.

They can breed chickens, too, that's not exactly a difficult thing to do, to be honest.

I quote:
"Many of these these small animals thus yielded food, clothing, or warmth. But none of them pulled plows or wagons, none bore riders, none except dogs pulled sleds of became war machinas, and none of them have been as omportant for food as have big domestic mammals. Hence the rest of this chapter will confine itself to the big mammals."

pg 158, Guns, germs and steel, by Jared Diamond which gives us the reasons why civilisation took place in certain places, and not others. Basically, it's about how some other aread are just plain lucky with what resources they have, from domesticable species and plants, to geographical unity.

And I still say chicken domestication takes a bloody long time, if they didn't come with the settlers. And for that you need a bloody lot chickens, too.
I concede that chicken can be an important domestic animal - look at Oceania, where it was very prominent, and very often the dominant domestic, where there were ALMOST states, or something similar, with a king on top.

Maybe some of the animals aren't that wild in the first place? And rabbits! Or some other created creature - there could be a creature that breeds faster than even rabbits.

Ach, what would THAT do to the environment? More hunting beasts, less other animals, less plantation, and soon we have a new Sahara - but instead of goats, it was rabbits, so we call it Rabara.

With all the nutrients you could ask for. Food all over the place!

How long would it last? Introduce something like the human beast into an environment, and soon you'll know what happened to the mammoths... And giant sloths. And dodos. And sabretooths. And hairy rhinos. And aurochs. And ad nauseam.

Easy. So you have the food to support 200 people because they work together in such ways. They expand over areas, making tracks and making stone walls and all that crap. Blah blah blah.

Stone walls for a measly 200 person village? What are they afraid of, bears? Cities have stone walls, fortresses have stone walls, and that is because you need a bureaucracy for it. And there is no room for bureaucracy in a community of 200 people.

And how do you know it took thousands of years to domesticate the cow? You're going by neanderthal eras again, and assuming the big bang took place.

It probably didn't take THOUSANDS of years (as in many thousands), to domesticate some cows, but it DID take a bloody long time for it to A) spread, and B) take place at all.

I think a lot of people wouldn't be gunning on the big bang after this one. Just because I haven't got any set religion doesn't mean that this world wasn't created by a god/gods.

I don't trust gods who don't play by the rules, and you'd have to tell us if the rules are different. But I'd also expect those rules to be internally compatible and logical.

Okay, when I said there won't be many people, I meant it won't be the populations of five worlds (ie, at least ten billion people) all sent over. Consider it to be millions over the world.

Much better.

And finally, Nait, keep in mind that we have races from five different worlds that have been seemingly magically transferred to a new world. This thing isn't exactly supposed to be realistic by Earthly terms.

Well, I'm also aiming for "playable." You're putting so much baggage on these five races. There won't be new religions for five years, it takes a bit longer than that. An people bent on survival aren't much of philosophers, especially if they're first-generation, who have done all their philosophing in the past, in the last world they lived in.

EDIT: Idea. Everyone apart from Nait can ignore this if they wish. We are at a medieval stage of technology on this world. They still remember the old world(s).

Then you must give us those worlds! Describe the worlds of the dwarves, elves, ingmanwhatevers, fishies, describe them to us, what they believe, how they work, how they love and hate and loathe, their histories, philosophies and milieus, their pasts and their presents.

That is that. If you are Nait, assume that one year on this planet is 100 years on Earth. If you are not Nait, you probably don't give a rat's arse anyway so let's just have fun, eh?

One year is a 100 on Earth? What do you mean, what does it matter if there is no communication with earth? Medievals come, five years later they send a message home, and whoopsiedoo, the Industrial Revolution hits'em in the face?

I want this to be logical, understandable, and internally consistent! And also to follow a few basic laws of history. This isn't the Settling of the West - because there was civilisation right behind the corner, pushing itself forward. This is like they'd dumped settlers into an empty america, with mammoths and giant felines, and no human in sight, and locked the door. Which sounds awfully lot like the arrival of the natives through the Strait tens of thousands of years ago.

[Loony BoB]

Yes, but Nait, we don't have to be picky and make the world perfect. This is for fun, not for a freaking science project. When you have this large an amount of people toying with a world, not everything is going to make sense. So what if it doesn't fit in with every single law that Earthly history has taught you? This isn't Earth. It's also possible that magic may become a part of this world, but we won't get into that just yet.

Just because the rabbits (or whatever) breed like there's not tomorrow doesn't mean we can't give them a short lifespan or a small appetite. These things can be worked around to suit humanoid survival.

Have the Pacific islands been inhabited for tens of thousands of years? =o

As for background of the other races... I don't see why you guys can't come up with that yourselves if you really want to.

EDIT: I'll say it again, though, if the only problem you have concerns the amount of time they took to get to the medieval stages, I'm happy to adjust that. I just don't want to change how they got there, or where they are at the point that we'll begin focusing on.

[Nait]

Ok, plz, but the time three hundred, or even five hundred years after the rift. ;_;

[Proxy]

I think the teleportation between worlds & dimensions should be possible, because of the medievil thing goin on. mages & magic run rampant throught the fictional medievil worlds. i say yes on warping & teleportation =D

[StarlightAngel]

Yes. The Mages could have maybe spoke with eachother through magic and decided to live upon the same planet. Of course, you don't have to go with my Idea...

[FightClubFan#47]

we could allways make a race native to the lands.