Grammar

Noctiluca · 04-14-2008, 08:38 PM

I thought maybe we could have a thread for grammar questions or something. They pop up now and then, at least for me. Unless it's just mine and nobody else will ever post here xD.

So I had an assignment to write this thing for a lovely lady named Cassidy, who is basically a teacher. And I think I use the proper em dashes, colons, sentences, commas, and semi-colons, but maybe not. Let me give a random example:

You should read this. It's my favorite book.

You should read this, it's my favorite book.

You should read this: it's my favorite book. Or is it "It's" with a capital?

You should read this; it's my favorite book.

You should read this — it's my favorite book.

I'm tilted to the colon. Can't a colon be used to explain logic behind the previous statement? Doesn't it explain why you should read it? All I know is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was colon palooza, and now I question it all. I see peeps using semi-colons everywhere, though.

I know you could turn this sentence into something much simpler, but I'm going for the question, so... Gotta complicate the matter. I think, maybe it's a bad example

.

**Flying Mullet** · 04-14-2008, 08:48 PM

It's too bad Dr. Unne's not a regular poster anymore. He was as anal-retentive as they get about grammar and could set everyone straight in this thread about anything related to grammar.

scrumpleberry · 04-14-2008, 09:32 PM

Originally Bespoken by Flying Mullet

It's too bad Dr. Unne's not a regular poster anymore. He was as anal-retentive as they get about grammar and could set everyone straight in this thread about anything related to grammar.

Don't worry Mullet. There's plenty of gramatical anal-retentiveness left in EoFF to go around. I'm sure there is.

Gramatically anal-retentive people, we're calling you to our aid..!

Personally, I'm a hyphen fan. I'd steer well clear of that semicolon. The full stop is okay but doesn't flow as nicely.

**rubah** · 04-14-2008, 09:32 PM

colons are for separating lists. The second part should never been an entire clause. If you use it to explain your previous statements, then you're just lying to yourself by not using a semi-colon.

Ouch! · 09:57 PM

I'll quote the rules for colon and dash usage from The Elements of Style. "Use a colon after an independent clause to introduce a list of particulars, an appositive, an amplification, or an illustrative quotation." This instance would qualify as an amplification, so a colon would be acceptable. Using a colon in this manner, however, has become quite uncommon. I would suggest that you use a semicolon instead, as it seems to have completely eclipsed colon usage for this purpose.

Strictly speaking, the only incorrect punctuation listed above is the comma which must be used with a conjunction. Otherwise, it's a comma splice. The use of a dash is arguably acceptable, depending on your intent. "Use a dash to set off an abrupt break or interruption, and to announce a long appositive or summary." Depending on how you intend the second independent clause to be read, using a dash would be appropriate.

Anyway, of the options given, I'd use a semicolon, although both the colon and full stop are also acceptable.

Edit: Do not capitalize after the colon.

Noctiluca · 04-14-2008, 10:04 PM

I'm all with rubah in the sense of lists. Which is what I thought they were for, besides the whole time thing, such as 1:32. I've mostly only ever used it to set off a list. Occasionally something like "Then he said it: Blah blah blah".

But let me pull some sentences from the book I referenced:

"Stop — STOP!" Harry shouted, but as he looked back again two jets of green light flew past his left ear: Four Death Eaters were keeping up with the bike; more curses shot after them, and Harry had to sink low into the sidecar to avoid them.

Harry saw the Death Eaters swerve out of sight to avoid the deadly trail of flame, and at the same time felt the sidecar sway ominously: Its metal connections to the bike had splintered with the force of acceleration.

He did it instinctively, without any sort of plan, because he hated the sight of her walking alone into the dungeon: As the door began to swing closed, he slipped into the courtroom behind her.

Why the hell is she using colons everywhere? I'm reading this Stephen King book Cell and he used one like that somewhere as well. I tried to find that example but I couldn't >[

And on Wikipedia it says:

As a rule, however, a colon informs the reader that what follows proves and explains, or simply enumerates elements of what is referred to before.

But then I was taught a semi-colon is to emphasize the connection, more so than a conjunction. Which does make sense here. If I had to guess on some essay that was important, I figure I would go with semi-colon in the end.

Edit: Oh wait, I just read Ouch!'s post. So, what, it's kind of up to me. Grammar pisses me off.

Ouch! · 10:15 PM

See my quotes above from The Elements of Style; you do not require a more definitive handbook for usage rules.

Edit: You would do well not to use Rowling as a guide for grammar rules. She's not exactly the best writer to ever touch a pen to a napkin.

Edit 2: After noticing that LunarWeaver has noticed my previous post, I have only one thing to say: the beauty of grammar is that there are multiple ways to punctuate the same sentence properly. Each of these various choices, however, will deliver a message differently. As mentioned earlier, the dash would imply an abrupt break. The reader would be queued to read the sentence and then break into the second clause--like so. A semicolon is the most formal of the options; it establishes a definitive break. The full stop does not attempt to visually connect the two clauses. It functions as the most blatant of breaks. The colon is somewhat less casual than the semicolon in this instance: it does not suggest a significant pause, and most closely ties the two clauses together. See what I mean?

Yaridovich · 04-14-2008, 10:10 PM

Originally Bespoken by scrumpleberry

Gramatically anal-retentive people, we're calling you to our aid..!

I'm here!

Em dashes are—for the most part—interchangeable with a colon. They can also replace parentheses or two commas used for apposition.

The only incorrect sentence of yours is the one including the comma. DO NOT JOIN TWO INDEPENDENT CLAUSES WITH A COMMA!

What's an independent clause? Well, "You should read this," and, "It's my favorite book," are both independent clauses because when seperated, they are still sentences.

Also, with your question on capitalization after colons, the American standard is to capitalize. The British standard is not to capitalize; I believe.