That Bloke in the Pipe [SPOILERS]

**Nicholas D. Wolfwood** · 05-24-2002, 05:47 PM

I really doubt Red XIII was in those nibelheim containers. Those who were stayed in nibelheim after it was rebuilt. But he does, however, have a tattoo. We don't know that Zack doesn't have one.

Jenova most likely cannot grow back lost heads. Zack doesn't lose his head. Like I said, with the blocky graphics, it could also be interpreted that they shot him in the chest.

Okay, you have a point there. However, that doesn't explain the wooden sound of the coffin lid when it lands. And don't say it's the wall. That's made out of stone.

Maybe it was something else then. But since we know his limit guage isn't empty, we know his limit breaks weren't recently used.

If you're not making this personal, you sure coulda fooled me. That "I'm sick of topics being closed because of you".......hmm.....I can think of ONE topic that was closed that I was arguing in because the other guy flew off the handle and started flaming. Not personal? Why are you complaining about me, and only me then?

**Koi Lung Fish** · 05-24-2002, 07:19 PM

Err, since when did wood go "clang"? Vincent's coffin makes a very audible metal-on-metal noise when it shuts. Not to mention that the coffin is kinda shiny ... considering the light conditions, the materials and how long it's been since it was last polished.
Wood, last that long, in those conditions? Not a chance. That coffin is *metal*.

As for Zack ... Wolfwood, you're sticking to it and saying it's possible. We're sticking to it and say it isn't. That's it. Accept it: you will never convince everyone. I, for one, cannot see any way in which Zack could have become the pipe clone, and you're going to have to pull out something very special and heretofor hidden to change my mind in the slightest.

Dak Rey · 05-24-2002, 10:52 PM

well, it is POSSIBLE. but i would say it was a 1/infinity chance. as far as im concerned, he died, but i will give it to you that it could be possible, just not likely, well hardly likely and near impossible, but possible, if you understand what im trying to say, anyway, i hope u r happy nick

**Nicholas D. Wolfwood** · 05-25-2002, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by Koi Lung Fish
Err, since when did wood go "clang"? Vincent's coffin makes a very audible metal-on-metal noise when it shuts. Not to mention that the coffin is kinda shiny ... considering the light conditions, the materials and how long it's been since it was last polished.
Wood, last that long, in those conditions? Not a chance. That coffin is *metal*.

As for Zack ... Wolfwood, you're sticking to it and saying it's possible. We're sticking to it and say it isn't. That's it. Accept it: you will never convince everyone. I, for one, cannot see any way in which Zack could have become the pipe clone, and you're going to have to pull out something very special and heretofor hidden to change my mind in the slightest.

I don't know what version of the game you're playing, but in mine, it clearly sounds like a hollow wooden "thunk". As for wood lasting that long, it's not like it's sitting out on the back patio. It's in a dry cellar. If those books can survive that long, a wooden coffin can, and supposing it were a moist environment in which wood wouldn't last, like you say, and the coffin were cast iron, wouldn't it rust? I can think of two metals that don't rust. Gold, and stainless steel. Neither of which are black. There may be some other rust resistant metal that I don't know about, I mean, I failed chemistry, but I can assure you that iron would rust.

about Zack: Okay. You don't think it's possible, even after what I've given you, and I do think it's possible, even after what I've given you. But neither of us is right, and neither of us is wrong. However, many of you appear to be acting as if I'm wrong just because my thoughts differ from yours. Note that on the first page of this topic, all I did was say that it's possible the guy in the pipe was zack, and immediately other people said there was no way in hell he was. Thus, the debate started. Am I blaming you? No. But a lot of you seem to be blaming me.

**Dr. Disco** · 05-25-2002, 07:05 AM

Guys, I never thought I'd say this, but JESUS CHRIST, let's just stop and think about what we're saying here.
No, I'm not talking about Zack here. That's practically been settled, and doesn't matter either way.

When the HELL did this Vincent thing come up anyway, and what in God's name has it degenerated to!? We've gone to arguing about Vincent being a Sephiroth clone to the goddamn material his coffin is made out of to the smurfing sound it makes when it pops off.
This is like the Zack debate, only about 7000 times stupider. Vincent might've just continued sleeping if you hadn't disturbed him, or he might've woken up, gone to the Reunion, came back, and went back to sleep. Most people(Read:me) would say that idea is insane and retarded, but who the hell cares? If there's the slightest chance that it was possible than this debate will never have a right or wrong side, so everyone just STOP POSTING because neither side is going to budge. This is as useless a debate as the "Who is the Sephiroth you follow in Disk 1?" argument, because its never perfectly clear on what happened, and so no one can win.

**Koi Lung Fish** · 05-25-2002, 11:48 AM

Funny, I seem to remember that debate being settled a few months ago ...

**Dr. Disco** · 05-25-2002, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by Koi Lung Fish
Funny, I seem to remember that debate being settled a few months ago ...

Or was it?

**Kawaii Ryûkishi** · 05-26-2002, 02:23 AM

I personally believe that this if the greatest debate ever. May it never, ever end.

**Koi Lung Fish** · 05-26-2002, 02:20 PM

Sarcasm, from Kishi?

Dr Disco: You think otherwise? Well, you know where the "POst New Topic" button is.

**Renzokuken** · 05-26-2002, 09:54 PM

Whoa!!!!!!!!

I remember thinking that I would properly only get 1 or 2 replys.
I come back to a full-scale war on the subject.

I think I've got the point now mind,

Thanks to everyone who made a contribution to it though.

Thanks

Haiwind · 06-17-2002, 06:02 PM

I don't know if anyone pointed this out (I was scanning a bit quickly near the end...)

But the guy in the pipe has much darker skin than Zack.

And Zack was killed, because that's the method of storytelling. In stories like Final Fantasy, everything that happens has a meaning and a purpose. The guards shooting his so closely was to put across the point that he was really dead...

And he was recorded as so.

**Cloud's sword holder** · 06-19-2002, 03:44 AM

I belive Wolf. First of all, he derserves some apretation for his bravery. Plus, if you go back to that bloke in the pipe, maybe if someone stared long and hard at him/her
you may just find out what he/she is saying.

**HOOTERS** · 06-19-2002, 01:46 PM

Ok, I'm going to finally reply to this thread now that things have cooled off a bit!

For ages I wondered what the significance guy in the pipe was but now that I've thought about it I reckon that he was just put there to introduce the tattoos which then keep popping up throughout the game to make you wonder what the hell they mean until you find out later. That's probably why Red XIII has one as well.

I think if it was Zack then squaresoft would give you a few more clues, I mean you could probably debate that Cid is Yuffie's grandmother if you looked hard enough and read into the game a little too far!

**Enigma** · 06-19-2002, 02:21 PM

I think that it is Zack. cuz (SPOILER) in the game, they said that the man in the pipe wuz found near Midgar. Zack wuz shot near Midgar. The man had a number and so did Sephiroth. And since Cloud was a failure clone, he didnt get a number. Zack must have been a sucess and got a number. Remember he wuz saying "ooooooooo auuuuuuuuuug" well, Cloud made the same noise so maybe when Zack wuz shot he wuznt blasted to pieces, he wuz just shot in the chest and a scientist stumbled upon him, overdosed him wit mako or sumthin and no hes doin what Cloud did in Mideel.

or maybe it's just me.

**Nemesis the Warlock** · 06-19-2002, 03:31 PM

Xmasta, you might have just proved that bloke is not Zack:
If he was found outside Midgar, it can't have been Zack. If I remember correctly, the grunts carried him off after they shot him. He was not left there, Cloud was (and I'm sure the bloke in the pipe is not Cloud).
And I don't think the sound "ooooooooo auuuuuuuuuug" helps to identify that person.

Besides, Zack doesn't make that sound (or any other sound) after he got pumped full of led. I believe Zack is dead, but I shouldn't say that too loud, before someone tells me how to revive him.

**Mookie37** · 06-19-2002, 05:21 PM

well, first ya gotta get Cloud in the right dress, the one that gets Coreno to pick him over Aeiris or Tifa. Then you have to enter X, SQUARE, TRIANGLE, TRAINGLE, TRAINGLE, TRAINGLE, O+X to make Cloud do the dance of the seven vails while singing row row your boat to a car wash!!
That will revive Zack. Yup *nods*

**Koi Lung Fish** · 06-19-2002, 06:41 PM

Xmasta: Sephiroth did not have a tattoo.
Nemesis: The Shinra troops didn't carry Zack off, they left him where they shot him.

**abrojtm** · 06-20-2002, 01:54 AM

Mookie37!!
How can I do that with a CPU ver?

(SARCASM)

**Mookie37** · 06-20-2002, 04:51 AM

Th code for the CPU version is the same as the code for that version that makes Tifa run around naked and preform perverse sexual acts on the party member of your choice. If you don't know that code, well then you're just sad. Yup *nods*

**Enigma** · 06-20-2002, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by Nemesis the Warlock
Xmasta, you might have just proved that bloke is not Zack:
If he was found outside Midgar, it can't have been Zack. If I remember correctly, the grunts carried him off after they shot him. He was not left there, Cloud was (and I'm sure the bloke in the pipe is not Cloud).
And I don't think the sound "ooooooooo auuuuuuuuuug" helps to identify that person. Besides, Zack doesn't make that sound (or any other sound) after he got pumped full of led. I believe Zack is dead, but I shouldn't say that too loud, before someone tells me how to revive him.

it wuz just my opinion. They did not carry Zack away. and Zack didnt say "ooooooooo auuuuuuuuuug" when he wuz shot. the man in the pipe did.

**theundeadhero** · 06-20-2002, 05:11 PM

I believe that Vincent has Jenova cells in him. At the "snowboarding city" watch the first home video. Ilfana says that when the crises from the sky first appeared (Jenova) it decieved the Cetra and gained their trust, then it gave them its Virus that turned some of them into "raging monsters". If Vincents limit breaks don't turn him into raging monsters than whatever.

**Koi Lung Fish** · 06-20-2002, 07:00 PM

Ageless Fantasy: Uh, what does that have to do with the current topic?

floris · 06-20-2002, 08:31 PM

but jenova has the power to rebuilt sertain genes
why can we beat her so easly
if her cells can heal wounds and body parts
why ,why can we beat her

i agree that vincent is infected with the jenova cells
( his limit breaks !! --> transformations, sef --> infected with jenova cells and he's also a kind of mutant)

**Koi Lung Fish** · 06-21-2002, 07:09 PM

Floris: Obviously, such healing powers have their limits. Repairing a mako-saturated body damaged or killed by a fall yet still sustained by a powerful force of will is one thing; repairing a lead-riddled body lying in one of the most mako-deprived areas of the planet is entirely another.

**edczxcvbnm** · 06-21-2002, 09:55 PM

You guys are not even on topic at all. SCREW THIS.

YOU CAN REVIVE AERIS IF YOU GET THE UNDERWATER MATERIA AND THE RAINBOW COLORED CHOCOBO!!!!!

**abrojtm** · 06-21-2002, 10:38 PM

REALLY?!? HOW DO I GET THE RAINBOW CHOC??!

Seriously though, how does Jenova have any healing powers besides Cloud's trip through the lifestream...wait she didn't really even heal him, Tifa did.

**Tom Morello** · 06-21-2002, 11:31 PM

I for one think...

a) the man in the pipe COULD be Zack

b) Vincent's coffin IS made of wood

c) Vincent DOES have Jenova cells

d) Jenova cells SLOWLY HEAL over extended periods of time, NOT two seconds and then you grow a new limb

e) There is NO CODE WHATSOEVER that revives Aeris, Zack or anyone else for that matter (NOT EVEN Cait Sith)

f) There isn't any rainbow chocobo, purple chocobo or red chocobo that you can possibly catch/breed

**PhoenixAsh** · 06-21-2002, 11:53 PM

Okay first off I want to aplaud Nick for sticking up for himself on his own for so long. I don't know if he reads this still but I'd just like to say that as far as all the arguements have gone so far, he WAS in the right!!!
Maybe not about Zack, I'll go into that in a second, but he was saying that it was POSSIBLE, everyone who said it was impossible or almost impossible or nearly impossible is WRONG as far as arguements have been so far, their are enough valid arguements for it to be at least plausible enough for fanfic.
Anyway now onto the topic.

As far as the scientific arguements have gone there are three arguements that just don't hold so in final fantasy should be discounted.
First, Vincent wouldn't have been stopped by the door.
YES HE WOULD!!! This is final fantasy! A team who has taken on Shinra killed jenova's armoured killing machines and travelled all over the world CANNOT open the door without a key!!! So Vincent could very well have been called.

Second, Zack couldn't have survived the gunfire. YES HE COULD!!! Again this is final fantasy, people only die if they are meant to, nomatter what happens to them. Cloud, Squall, Vincent, Dyne, Ward, Kiros, Laguna, etc. all have survived surefire deaths. Zack was not certainly shot in the head, and even then he could still have survived.

Third Jenova can be killed easily, says who? Even if it doesn't revive itself, thats because you destroy it! You can't regenerate yourself if you have a starting point. If it's not destroyed, who says it doesn't revive. Maybe you don't see it, or maybe you do. Doesn't Synthesis suggest that the previous forms have joined, it doesn't really seem the logical step after Birth, Life, Death does it?

But thats just arguing against theories trying to disprove the possibility, I'm not saying the man in the pipe is Zack, or that Vincent was called, although I have to say Jenova cells do seem the most likely source of his powers and survival. It is plausible enough for a fanfic, and I believe that is how it was intended (open ended), or maybe as has been suggested, just as an early glimpse of the clones.

I'm sorry to all the people who think that this topic should be left, I am not argueing that I am right, merely that other people are not wrong.

**Sephex** · 06-22-2002, 01:30 AM

You can revive Aeris.

This thread has gone to far, it is a dead debate.

EDIT: No, I don't believe that, it's just that this thread has been an eyesore for quite sometime. I thought we weren't allowed to revive threads anyway?

**Zypher** · 06-22-2002, 01:52 AM

I agree with Sephex. Of course it's possible that the guy in the pipe is Zack. You could defend that position forever. What? Zack got shot in the head at point blank range? But it's possible that the Jesus Christ came down from heaven and healed Zack.

The point being, this debate is pointless. I mean, you're arguing about what sound the lid of a coffin makes when it hits the floor and how full Vincent's limit break was when you get him. End this already.

Thread: That Bloke in the Pipe [SPOILERS]

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