Important news.

[Raistlin]

Obviously it wasn't enough time. I think too many people are way too worked up about stupid internet drama. I care a lot about this place but I'm not going to lose sleep over some stupid made up rules inconsistency crap. People are inconsistent. If you have trouble dealing with that you'll have a long, hard life. This place runs a lot better when everyone "cares" less. Go post in the FF forums maybe. Remind yourself why you came here in the first place.

Obviously, you don't care as much as you think if you couldn't care less how things work out.

If you don't care about the discussion, just don't view the threads or talk about it. Easy enough. People have different priorities than you and care differently than you. If you have trouble dealing with that, you'll have a long, hard life.

[eestlinc]

You don't have to get spiteful. You can ignore my advice if you want, but I dont think anyone can really argue that I don't care about this place.

[The Captain]

Though I see where you're coming from Eest, part of what I think feeds some of the major problems in the world is that they aren't addressed even on the smallest levels. If a child isn't taught that rules should be followed, when they grow up, how will they respect said rules, to use an example. When something is deemed unfair or inconsistent, and isn't dealt with, it grows and can lead to other problems, perhaps not on a board but in a person's life off of the board. I treat this and everything I take part in as an extension of myself, of what I strive for in my life so I can't just go quietly into the night because doing that would be going against everything I try to stand for, not just as a member, but as a person existing in this world.

To me this issue carries great weight because it is something I care about.

Strangely enough, I rather enjoy when I'm told something is never going to change, because that motivates me to push harder and keep going, even if it is fruitless. If we cannot be judged in how we try, how can we be judged at all?

Take care all.

[Raistlin]

Everybody who posts here cares about it, I think. It's all a matter of degree. I think if you care enough about a place, you're willing to put forth some modicum of effort for such a place. Isn't that what staff does?

EDIT: I love you, Cap'n.

[eestlinc]

I don't see how consistency is a virtue. Predictable is a synonym for boring in my book.

[Mr. Graves]

I, personally, am of the opinion that internet drama can make one care less about what happens in a forum, and of the internet in general, mainly as a defensive thing. I don't care near as much about this place as I once did, say...2 years back? And believe me...I cared. When I saw people making remarks about other people (mainly towards Joel), I would make an LJ entry about it and stuff like that. And if course I'd jump into stuff that wasn't even my business, mostly via LJ. And I think that is what made me tire of EoFF in the first place, as well as seeing old people who were regulars when I joined stop posting around here. I don't even know over half of the folks that post here today. That I do know are current or now former staffers.

Therefore don't get involved, so I don't take a part in much drama that breaks out. And I'm occupied with college stuff, and that comes first before most things anymore.

EDIT:

Predictable is a synonym for boring in my book.

That's another thing that made me tire of forums in general too. Seeing the same people act the same way. I'm glad you brought that up.

[The Captain]

"I don't see how consistency is a virtue. Predictable is a synonym for boring in my book"

I guess we just don't read from the same book. I've always found consistency to be among the highest virtue because it's so tough to have and attain, in sports, in entertainment, in law and in life. Positive consistency, that is.

Different strokes for different folks.

Take care all.

[Raistlin]

I don't see how consistency is a virtue. Predictable is a synonym for boring in my book.

There's a difference between a consistency of actions and a consistency of values. I would hope that the morals, principles, and values which spawned this place and kept it going for the past 5 1/2 years would not differ too dramatically.

[nik0tine]

I said this earlier, but I will say it again, because I think other people feel this way as well.

I do not care about this incident at any other time, except for when I am visiting EoFF. I don't lose sleep over this, and I don't give it much thought when I am busy living my real life. However, when I am at EoFF I treat it as something that deserves recognition. It is important TO EoFF, and therefore when we visit EoFF, it becomes important for the period of time that we are logged on. That's how I see it, at least.

Edit:

There's a difference between a consistency of actions and a consistency of values

Oh my god! John Kerry is a flip flopper!

[eestlinc]

So you make a policy. Then when faced with a dilemma involving this policy you stop and rethink the policy, and then change it. How is that abandoning your morals? It's easy to say "I'd ban my grandmother for posting porn" when you don't have to do it. When you are put in that situation then you are able to evaluate it from a different perspective.

[The Captain]

So it would seem that the saying, "Do as I say, not as I do" still rings true.

Take care all.

[eestlinc]

Well, people say things all the time that they believe to be true at the time, but when faced with the actuality of the statement realize that they spoke in error. I suppose it's not the perfect ideal, but nothing is. Somehow I doubt this decision has been easy for anyone on staff.

[Raistlin]

So you make a policy. Then when faced with a dilemma involving this policy you stop and rethink the policy, and then change it. How is that abandoning your morals? It's easy to say "I'd ban my grandmother for posting porn" when you don't have to do it. When you are put in that situation then you are able to evaluate it from a different perspective.

If that were all it was, then that would be that. However, it appeared very much like Staff kept to those values, and spouted them often to us members, until those values were actually challenged. How many times did Staff members tell us "post porn, get banned" and "the only person exempt from the rules is Cid" and "even if a staff member posted porn, they'd get banned" and "if I posted porn, I'd expect to get banned?" I could look up a good 20 quotes from a variety of staff members, all saying to that effect - and those would only be from the past six months or so. But then when Staff was put into a position where they actually had to do as they say, then they backed off? That just doesn't sound right.

Neither does the "borderline" image excuse. They admit that if anyone else had posted the image, they'd be banned, so it's obviously not borderline. But Kishi posted it, so now it's "borderline?" It's borderline only for Kishi, apparently, which sounds like they're using that as an excuse, because "we don't want to ban Kishi" won't fly.

And was it even discussed in Staff that Kishi be punished? Or was it "all or nothing?" Just doesn't seem right.

[eestlinc]

I think the whole "Anyone except Cid would be banned" was bluster. It's an exaggeration made because they figured noone on staff would ever be dumb enough to actually do it. I still don't understand how Kishi thought it would be a smart thing to do, but whatever.

[Raistlin]

I think the whole "Anyone except Cid would be banned" was bluster. It's an exaggeration made because they figured noone on staff would ever be dumb enough to actually do it. I still don't understand how Kishi thought it would be a smart thing to do, but whatever.

So they were intentionally lying to make a point? That doesn't sound any better to me than going back on their principles. Plus, I have a hard time believing Unne or RSL would exaggerate a point. And obviously D, Matt, and Leeza weren't. And I wouldn't have thought Daniel was exaggerating his point to Bleys and I, though I guess I was wrong on that point. Maybe you make a valid point: maybe some of the staff members never really considered the ramifications of their apparent values. Doesn't make it any less wrong, though.