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Thread: Are JRPGs Proving Unpopular in the West?

  1. #16
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowdust View Post
    The real shame is that JRPG publishers have largely ignored the most affordable platform available, Steam for PC. With the advances in gaming worthy integrated graphics on PCs, it could be a largely lucrative market for Japanese publishers. And granted, piracy would increase in these games but so would their visibility. I am running into more and more PC gamers these days than I ever did in previous generations and I really think it is because of platforms like Steam which allow for some pretty affordable games. I personally find my own consoles collecting dust as I continue gaming on my PC instead.

    Those are just a few thoughts I can drum up right now. Obviously, there's more to the story than what I think on the subject. The one thing I really hope for though is the return of the JRPG in its former glory to western gamers. I really miss kicking back with a new JRPG that doesn't require hand cramping on a handheld. :P
    The issue with Publishers and I think what might be part of the issue with bringing these games over is something that I've heard come up from the anime publishers, which is that Japanese companies tend to charge an arm and leg to get publishing rights outside of their country. I think this is why we see such a huge gulf in the genre with people like Vanillaware and Atlus publishing smaller obscure games (because its probably cheaper than trying to bring out something bigger) and why the main big JRPGs are published in-house by big studios like Square-Enix and Sega, the issue for smaller companies is that sometimes, these publishing fees and the actual sales don't work out for them and so they may see a huge loss. Sometimes the gamble works, Atlus made a killing with Demon's Souls but due to the game's popularity, Atlus lost the publishing rights to its spiritual sequel Dark Souls because Sony outbid them when the publishing rights came up.

    For the big titles, I think we are seeing fewer because the sales don't equal the costs to produce and we're reaching a point where JRPGs that don't have a major company funding and publishing it or they are not small enough to be cheaply translated, tend to fall into the cracks. I think the idea of digital distribution will help publishers and frankly Square-Enix and Atlus have been making good use of things like Steam or the Big 3 Online shops, but this is of course only going to work on how much Steam and the Big 3 try to screw the publishers when it comes to allowing them to have their games on their distribution networks. I mean if Atlus has to pay a Japanese company a certain amount of money and sign over a generous percentage of total sales, spend money to translate, possibly VA work plus advertising, and then turn around and have to pay another generous amount of money to Steam for the privilege of selling their product on it, then the bottom line is probably going to be too small to bother unless they feel the game will be so successful that its high sales will offset their losses. Course that's assuming it work this way but considering you get free advertizing and don't have to deal with distributors, I'm certain whatever price tag Steam is offering is quite nice for a company that can do the translation work in house. I'm not sure how well it would work out for a company that is mostly dealing with being the middle man between Japanese development studios and the actual consumer.

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    On a different note, there is also the issue of the dwindling big console JRPGs, we can agree the genre lives on with handhelds but what do you suppose is the real reason behind the genre slowly disappearing on the main three consoles. I mean at the start of the generation there was a ton of JRPGs released and then it kind of just stopped happening as often. I mean the WRPGs came to be but I don't really feel like they really overshadowed actual JRPGs because I don't really feel like any Big Budget titles came out at the same time as them.

    If the genre is alive and well, why does it seem to be retreating from the big consoles, have we simply been living in the delusion that this genre was really designed fro handhelds and that's why they are taking off on them because they finally found their true home, or do you feel there is a reason JRPG companies are too afraid to make titles for the big boy consoles?

  2. #17
    -=Hentai School Girl=- Fuzakeru's Avatar
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    Numbers and reality aside : it does FEEL like JRPGs are less popular.

    I refuse to live my life without a PS2 in to because I have a TON of JRPGs and I collected half of them by just walking in a store, seeing some cool cover art, reading the back, and buying it. I seemed to always walk out with a different JRPG every time I went in to a game store despite being up to date or not.

    I feel like I now have to hunt in a game store for a JRPG title. It helps having a DS/3DS since a lot of JRPGs seem to have found a nice niche there but it is disappointing to now not just run across titles in the stores.

    There's plenty to find online and purchase ( and I'm not against that ) but I miss the lucky happenstances.
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  3. #18
    Doctor of Cool Dr. rydrum2112's Avatar
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    I am throughly disappointed with the jrpgs/console rpgs that game out this generation. In my mind it isn't time for ps4/neXtBox till this generation has a better games...

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    Nerf This~ Laddy's Avatar
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    To be honest I would say up until this generation WRPG's were a bit niche and it wasn't until the genre released game more accessible to general audiences that anyone bought them in large numbers.

    As for JRPG's, there has simply been a lack of innovation and quality and the genre needs to realize how they're going to evolve and adapt to survive in the West. Most Japanese RPG's that did well over here really WRPG's (Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma). And with the exception of Xenoblade Chronicles, there's been a relative lack of innovation to keep audiences interested.



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    Recognized Member ShinGundam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laddy View Post
    To be honest I would say up until this generation WRPG's were a bit niche and it wasn't until the genre released game more accessible to general audiences that anyone bought them in large numbers.

    As for JRPG's, there has simply been a lack of innovation and quality and the genre needs to realize how they're going to evolve and adapt to survive in the West. Most Japanese RPG's that did well over here really WRPG's (Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma). And with the exception of Xenoblade Chronicles, there's been a relative lack of innovation to keep audiences interested.
    DkS and DD are action RPGs not WRPGs.
    Xenoblade Chronicles is your grindy Korean MMO style.

    As for innovation, I usually find this criticism to be filled with hypocrisy. Truth is JRPGs took off in late SNES/PS1 era and started getting bigger budgets and more development teams. This led to a wider variety of rpgs and lots and lots of high quality rpg titles. Then the Japanese video game market crashed and became more fragmented with PS3/360/PSP/Wii/DS and budgets took a nose dive and everyone just wanted to make cheap as possible rpgs for DS/PSP, then slightly less cheap rpgs for PS360wii. We reached point that specialized studios like Tri Ace and Game Arts don't get any contracts to make a major RPGs some even moved to work on social games and free to play games.


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    Yeah I think there's been a decent amount of innovation in JRPGs with Dark Souls and Demon's souls, which come from a very Japanese tradition as the spiritual successor to King's Field, and White Knight Chronicles also bringing in a lot of interesting ideas with online multiplayer, as well as evolving the FFXII system, which should be the new "traditional" JRPG combat system.

    Then you have Valkyria Chronicles, a very bold step for SRPGs, and these are all console titles; after that comes the creative push on handheld with Radiant Historia and the like.

    Honestly I'd say WRPGs are just as niche. Skyrim pretty much shed the last RPG vestiges that series had left, and we've all seen Bioware turn Mass Effect and Dragon Age into action games with dialogue trees. I doubt the popularity for the rest of the genre is really all that high.

  7. #22
    Lives in a zoo Recognized Member Renmiri's Avatar
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    I've been playing a lot of Bioware games and posting on their forum (ME3 sucks, DAI rules ) and it surprised me to see the amount of people who despise JRPGs as "outdated", "story too convoluted / doesn't make sense" and "JRPGs are not RPGs they are interactive movies since you don't get to chose anything", "too cartoony / childish" and other complaints. To the Bioware forum RPGs are CRPGs and JRPGs are just movies O.o
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  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    If the genre is alive and well, why does it seem to be retreating from the big consoles, have we simply been living in the delusion that this genre was really designed fro handhelds and that's why they are taking off on them because they finally found their true home, or do you feel there is a reason JRPG companies are too afraid to make titles for the big boy consoles?
    It's like you said earlier in this post - it's all about returns. I'm gonna guess that cranking out a game for the PSP doesn't cost anywhere near as much as a PS3 or Xbox 360 title. How much time and money must be spent on all those AWESOME GRAPHIX.

    Businesses exist to make a profit and since the climate has cooled for JRPGs, it's less risky to make a handheld title than a main console one.

    Also I don't think there's any real reason why JRPGs aren't as big as they once were. It's just the same thing as the Anime Boom finally folding; the bubble will eventaully burst for just about everything. The actual quality of the games really has little to do with it IMO. I mean, the two biggest anime ever in America are Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z, neither of which is really that good. Similarly the JRPGs of today don't have to be bad to not sell as well as JRPGs at their peak of Western popularity.

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    Bolivar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renmiri View Post
    I've been playing a lot of Bioware games and posting on their forum (ME3 sucks, DAI rules ) and it surprised me to see the amount of people who despise JRPGs as "outdated", "story too convoluted / doesn't make sense" and "JRPGs are not RPGs they are interactive movies since you don't get to chose anything", "too cartoony / childish" and other complaints. To the Bioware forum RPGs are CRPGs and JRPGs are just movies O.o
    This reminds me of the controversial statement that Bioware high ups made around the time FFXIII was outselling ME2 (SPOILER).

    The problem is not all WRPGs have you create a character (The Witcher), not all WRPGs have choices (The Elder Scrolls (not alot)) and not all WRPGs have open-worlds (Dragon Age). Even on pen-and-paper, these things have never been inherently necessary to tabletop RPGs (Forgotten Realms modules say hi). Even the whole dialogue-tree mechanic, I'd say is more derivative of early PC adventure games than they are of tabletop. No one plays Dungeons and Dragons like a multiple choice exam.

    We've been asking what an RPG is on this forum all the time, and after spending a little time on the other side for the last year, I really think it's just the RPG gameplay and mechanics that makes them heirs to the title. In that way, I'd say WRPGs have moved further away from what makes an RPG than their Japanese counterparts have.

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    Happiness Hurricane!! Pike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolivar View Post
    Honestly I'd say WRPGs are just as niche. Skyrim pretty much shed the last RPG vestiges that series had left, and we've all seen Bioware turn Mass Effect and Dragon Age into action games with dialogue trees. I doubt the popularity for the rest of the genre is really all that high.
    This is why you play all the older ones Right Laddy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolivar View Post
    as well as evolving the FFXII system, which should never be used again because it was one of the worst systems the genre has ever had.
    Fixed that for you.

    While we're on the topic of handhelds, though, has anyone ever considered that they may just be a better platform for RPGs?
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  12. #27
    Nerf This~ Laddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolivar View Post
    Honestly I'd say WRPGs are just as niche. Skyrim pretty much shed the last RPG vestiges that series had left, and we've all seen Bioware turn Mass Effect and Dragon Age into action games with dialogue trees. I doubt the popularity for the rest of the genre is really all that high.
    This is why you play all the older ones Right Laddy?
    People who play Dragon Age and Mass Effect for an RPG are playing for the wrong reasooooons~.



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