Cloud or Zack: Who's Stronger?

[Forsaken Lover]

Well it seems like a fair question. There was a topic on it back in '06 but since CC came out after that I don't think that topic had much to go on.

But with Crisis Core and Advent Children and all the rest of it, who do you think is stronger between the two of them?

[leader of mortals]

Well, although I think Zack is a much better person, I think Cloud is stronger based on the story. In the game, Sephiroth is "killed" by Cloud, but Sephiroth had the power to defeat Zack. However, it could be argued that Cloud was only stronger at that time because Cloud was in a state of amazing rage, and that Zack is actually stronger. I still say Cloud though, even though I like Zack a lot more.(SPOILER)man-crush?

[Kyros]

I think that since Zack's dead Cloud would win by default Also I think its a little unfair since Cloud has an extra weapon in his spikes of death on top of his head.

[Khimbar2775]

I think that since Zack's dead Cloud would win by default

that was my first thought as well

however, one could argue that because Cloud was a "failed experiment" Zack takes the default win. Zack was also a SOLDIER 1st class, which we all know Cloud never got. he just killed the best SOLDIER out there...

too many counter intuitive citations...

[Skyblade]

Cloud failed at being a SOLDIER purely due to psychological reasons. At the time, his psyche was too fragile to take the treatments that being a SOLDIER would bring upon him, so he was washed out of the program. Physically, however, he was more than capable. Despite not having gone through the full SOLDIER physical augmentations of Mako and JENOVA cell infusions, he was strong enough to overcome one of the most powerful entities we know of.

His initial successful attack against Sephiroth could have been attributed to it being a sneak attack (showing he was smarter than Zack by attacking without letting his opponent know he was there), but when he threw Sephiroth into the reactor, he had clearly overpowered him, and had, depending on how you look at it, used Sephiroth's Masamune, a weapon that supposedly could not be wielded by any other, against Sephiroth. Remember, he grabbed the Masamune and, after getting back on his feet, used it to lever Sephiroth off the edge.

Hojo then found him, and decided he was an excellent specimen physically, and he marvelled at a creature capable of physically defeating Sephiroth. Since Hojo cared nothing for Cloud's mind, he began prompt experimentation, infusing him with JENOVA cells and Mako, further enhancing his strength similarly to SOLDIER members.

The "failed experiment" was not due to any physical weakness. The experiment Hojo was setting up was designed to prove the validity of the Reunion theory. Thus, the failure of the experiment would be because Cloud's JENOVA-enhanced body failed to meet the projected behaviour that Hojo had predicted and expected. If anything, this would suggest a mental defect (or, taken from the viewpoint of a non psychopath, a mental strength. Cloud's inner mind fighting back against JENOVA's control as we see it do so many times in the game).

So, yeah, it's Cloud.

[Forsaken Lover]

Cloud overpowered a Sephiroth who probably had part of his spine severed seeing as how he was stabbed in teh back by a giant sword.

Neither Cloud nor Zack are stronger than Sephiroth.

[Khimbar2775]

Cloud overpowered a Sephiroth who probably had part of his spine severed seeing as how he was stabbed in teh back by a giant sword.

Neither Cloud nor Zack are stronger than Sephiroth.

how can one overpower while still being weaker? yes, its possible, but stength is strength. and Cloud can get his up to 255.

and Skyblade, *awesome* rundown of the whole thing you explained. i havent played the game in maybe seven years, and you just refreshed quite a bit. thanks for being aweosme

[Shiva_queen]

Cloud for sure. He beats the **** out of Sephiroth. And he also overcomes his problems at the end. And did you see those awesome moves in FF VII: Advent Children? He even then beats sephiroth... again!

Enough said, I would say. Cloud just rulez!!

[Melissaur]

Well let's see Cloud had severe Mako Poisoning, to the point that he should be a damned vegetable TWICE! Once in Crisis Core and again in Final Fantasy 7, and yet he still managed to pull through both times and kick the ever-lovin out of Sephiroth, again TWICE! He was even shot at the end of Advent Children and wen through an explosion. I love Zack, but I'd have to say Cloud is stronger, even if Zack was still alive.

[Kyros]

So for the next random installment of FFVII maybe they should but in an arm wrestling contest between the two to settle it. :P

[Wolf Kanno]

Its difficult for me to really say cause the Compilation basically gives a giant middle finger to strength and show of force compared to the original VII. VII is like Dragon Ball where the allegory of "destroying a mountain" is impressive but AC and CC basically jump it up to DBZ levels where "destroying mountains" is the starting point and that's for the non-Jenova infused residents. Seriously after watching AC or playing through CC, I've come to the conclusion that Sephiroth used Meteor cause it was his only means of injuring the planet without out right destroying it cause if he actually just used his natural power he would have sliced the planet in half.

I'm going to go differently here and say that Zack is actually stronger and its because of one simple reason... Sephiroth is arrogant. Why would an elite 1st Class SOLDIER lower himself to actually trying against a simple infantryman, even if he was put through the SOLDIER process he's a failure as both a SOLDIER and as a Sephiroth Clone which makes him a perfect pawn?

The AC Ultimania says that Sephiroth wasn't actually putting any effort into his battle with Cloud (who is desperately struggling to stay alive), he toys with him and considering his dialogue with Cloud throughout most of VII its obvious Sephy looks at everyone on the planet as simple single cell organisms.

I've always been of the belief that most FF villains fail cause they feel their "godhood" makes them invincible and thus don't actually try to put any effort into actually destroying the party like they should. Seriously, considering the power Sephy has shown compared to what both Zack or Cloud have shown makes it obvious that Sephy is truly in a league of his own compared to these two. Sephy's arrogance is the true cause of his downfall, not because Cloud is actually stronger than him.

Also, CC retcons (or expands depending on where you stand on the subject) and shows that Zack was only finally killed after fighting what appears to be most of the Shin-Ra army. A massive force to take down one guy... Cloud has never shown that level of power, Zack has also defeated two 1st Class SOLDIERS who were said to be on par with Sephiroth though they were both decidedly weaker than Sephy. Still he beat them and din't show the same signs of Fatigue like Cloud did and unlike Cloud, Zack beat god-mode Genesis alone where as Cloud beat god-mode Sephiroth with the whole party.

[Khimbar2775]

All Cloud has to do is invest some money to breed some chocobos, and BAM he has Knights of the Round. Cloud can solo anything after that

[Unbreakable Will]

Cloud all the way, Zack was good, no doubt about that. Cloud just takes the cake in the way of physical power.

[Wolf Kanno]

All Cloud has to do is invest some money to breed some chocobos, and BAM he has Knights of the Round. Cloud can solo anything after that

Except no matter what, the Compilation says Cloud beat Sephy in VII with the help of his comrades, not to mention Aerith is the one that actually saves the planet.

[arcanedude34]

Zack can break the damage limit. Cloud cannot.