Tidus, Yuna, Shuyin, Lenne

[Mercen-X]

I've searched these threads and either there's no way to search for this or it doesn't exist.

i dont get it how come Shuyin looks like tidus or oposite?
pinoytidus (2 weeks ago) Show Hide Marked as spam Reply guess you can say he's tidus's "other." just like how namine` is kairi's "other" and roxas is to sora. idk...
hunteranubis (1 week ago) Show Hide +1 Marked as spam Reply well I think they look alike becose Tidus is faiths recreation of Shuyin. Since they recreated zanarkand they couldnt get everything right so there are some small diferences. After all it would be imposible to create 100 % copy of everything. Everyones memories are bit altered from the truth
Deadrisingfan2 (1 week ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply It has a Link to Kingdom hearts...so basicly when Tidus Dies...he gets a Other basically..
hunteranubis (1 week ago) Show Hide +1 Marked as spam Reply nope it doesnt work like that. Tidus actualy never lived altho Shuyin did. Tidus is something like a replica of Shuyin the way faith remembered him in Zanarkand.
Only reason why Shuyin lives is explained in caves

So what's going on?

[Little Blue]

I remember looking this up a while ago, and came across this in the EoFF wiki

WikiEoFF | Main > TidusAndShuyinAnAnalysis

But sufficed to say, Shuyin died 1000 years ago, a very emotional death one can be sure. His emotions bound themselves in his pyreflies, and most of which ended up in the Den of Woe (where we see a shadow of Shuyin playing havoc with peoples minds) and of which fragments can occasionally get out. One such pyrefly happened to be flying through DZ at the time Tidus was being created, and the result was that Shuyin's appearance and abilities got duplicated in Tidus.

I find it highly unlikely that Tidus is a direct replica of Shuyin based on the fayth's memories since he was 1000 years separated, and one would think that DZ would emulate life sufficiently well to result in mixing a parent's features into their offspring, bar any external influence, such as stray energetic pyreflies...

That's if I understood that wiki article right

[Tavrobel]

It would be very important to remember that DZ uses real time, (1000 years = 1000 years), and that the mechanics of KH world do not tie into FFX's. This isn't a case of "zomaigawd lost mai hart lol," but rather, it is the natural ability of the pyreflies to sustain a dream long enough that offspring of the originals are required. If you've ever heard someone say about you (or other people), "ohh, you look just like your grandfather," it can probably happen in FFX, as well.

The most plausible theory is that Shuyin was re-created in the first incarnation of DZ. After how ever many years or Yu Yevon resets, there just happens to be a person who winds up using the "Shuyin template." I am less enthusiastic in supporting the notion that a random Shuyin pyrefly was waltzing around at Tidus's creation, thus giving him an almost identical set of attributes. there's no proof to show that pyreflies influence parts inside of an already operating system. For example, a stray pyrefly does not magically change Bahamut's wing color in the middle of battle. Conservation of energy in isolated systems, anyone?

Eg., when Tidus is first given the sword, he had no idea what he was doing. Whether through an intended plot device or the wonder world of RPG mechanics gave him instantly the ability to chop things up, he had to have gotten this from somewhere, and it appears to be an innate knowledge. This further invalidates the "random pyrefly" and supports the "template" idea, though either stance could be argued given enough time.

Pyreflies can go wherever they want, though. I accept the opinion that they all go to the Den of Woe, but not to DZ. Yu Yevon has to have kept a closer eye than that.

Just another set of instances that shows how FFX-2 screwed up FFX.

[Little Blue]

I'm actually in two minds as to Shuyin's state myself.

For example, I believe I once heard, possibly even in game, I can't remember and its been a while since I last played, that the Den of Woe Shuyin is merely a shadow of the former unsent. That to me implies that Shuyin didn't truly become an unsent even though the manner of his death would allow such a thing to occur. His emotional pyreflies were scattered throughout Spira, but since they can go anywhere, a significant fraction found a nice dark cave in which they could exist in to wallow in their misery. Other pyreflies are still in Spira, possibly affecting DZ, resulting in Tidus.

Or there is the simpler explanation that the fayth just recalled Shuyin's appearance and abilities, and chose to make Tidus in his image rather than doing a usual mix and match of attributes from the parents. The unsent shuyin just happened to make his way to the Den where he sat and wallowed in misery for a millennia...

The latter is simpler and hence more preferable, but it does not explain satisfactorily (to me at least) why they chose to switch to an old template and not generate a new one like they've done for generations since their dream's original creation. The former is more complicated, but it does explain, to me at least, why the fayth did something out of the ordinary...

It depends whether you prefer Occam's Razor + X-2 plotholes and canon butchery or convolution.

[Skyblade]

Plenty of character designs get reused, even important ones (Beclem is Yojimbo's fayth, for goodness' sake!). Probably genetics work a bit differently in Spira, which is why you can find identical looking people with totally opposite personalities all over the world.

[Little Blue]

That's just being lazy on the part of the designers. For example, we see no duplicate O'akas, Cids, Bahamut Fayth Kids etc, so it is unlikely to be explained purely genetically as the chances of it happening, with Tidus and shuyin sharing both appearance and skills are astronomically low unless there is some form of coupling between the two, which it is thought there is.

[Namelessfengir]

the "coupling" of tidus and shuyin is that tidus is a replica of shuyin, not a perfect one obviously, just a knock off. that is why they sound alike, look alike and have similar moves

as for yuna/lenne thats a bit harder to explain i mean they go into pretty well why yuna is joined with her but for appearance it was rated a coincidence

[BG-57]

Of course the external reason they look alike is to motivate Yuna to go on her quest, which is a big coincidence upon which to hang the entire plot.

Back to internal reasons my take on it is many of the Fayth on Mt. Gagazet knew Shuyin personally, which influenced their dreams eventually reforming him physically as Tidus, while his memories existed separately in the Pyreflies in the Den of Woe. Outside of the Farplane Shuyin has no physical form other than Pyreflies. I'm not ruling out a catalyst that somehow triggers Tidus' formation though.

It reminds me of the duality of Fei and Graphf in Xenogears.

[Roogle]

I believe that Dream Zanarkand is reset after a set number of years and that Tidus is an ideal recreation of Shuyin.

It is important to note that Tidus and Shuyin share physical attributes and gameplay attributes, too. They have the same type of Overdrive attacks and the same fighting stance, so I think that Tidus learned to fight in the dream based on that same recreation of Shuyin.