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#17  tldr version at the bottom (before my note) You're correct. Wii does have a lot of accessories, but few of them are necessary. I have a pair of controllers with nunchuks. One I had to buy, the other came with the console. Together a Wiimote+Nunchuk retails for $60. A 360 controller retails for $50 and PS3 controllers range from $55 to $75. You automatically assume since I can play with 4 people that must do and therefor buy all of the controllers, but that's a spurious argument. The controller cost issue is relatively the same across all consoles, probably being worst with PS3. If I want to get a Wii Motion Plus (or 2) I'll just pick up Wii Sports Resort and get two of them in the box. I got one of the Wii-wheels with Mario Kart and bought another one for $5 when I saw it on sale. Not so bad a deal. I don't need some plastic gun thing or gimmicky sports attachments to play. My Wii cost $250 when I bought it. At the time the 360 cost $400. My Wii came with built-in wireless. If I added that to a 360 I'm up to $500 for a tiny HD. If I wanted to upgrade the HD in a PS3 I would spend $100 and get probably 500 Gigs whereas for the same price I would've gotten maybe 40-60 Gigs for the 360 because Microsoft made it proprietary. I suppose you could make it without the stupid $100 wireless thing from MS and just make a bridge with a router (which I will be doing), but that still costs you. It's humorous that you argue how the Xbox 360 (Elite) comes with a headset in the box and the PS3 does not. But the PS3 has wireless out of the box and 360 does not. Headsets are cheaper than wireless routers last I checked. Fine, Xbox has more stable online and PS3 (and Wii) has it free. It's give and take, but that doesn't make anyone necessarily better than the other nor does it protect any of them from reasonable criticism where they fail. Now Microsoft is making all memories cards that aren't marked up, proprietary crap completely unusable. That's not a good way to treat your customers. With a Wii you can buy lots of silly gizmos if you want but you don't have to. Most of them are third party scammy crap. For Xbox you practically must buy overpriced MS brand crap to even come up to par. That was my only argument against Xbox. They actively make a point of forcing consumers to buy their first party crap to make their console playable. NOTE: Let's just be clear that we can make arguments without taking sides. I can hate Microsoft's business model and still like their console. I hate a lot of the crap Sony has done where they seem to take delight in sh***ing on their customers as well, but I love my PSP and PS2. You don't have to counterpoint this as though I were a Wii fanboy defending everything Nintendo does. Wii Motion Plus is BS and should've been in the standard Wiimote from the start. I'm just calling a spade a spade with the way Microsoft does business. Last edited by Yeargdribble; 11-05-2009 at 12:57 AM.. |
11-05-2009, 12:52 AM
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 | Well I don't assume you must get 4 controllers however here is my point on the whole thing, 4 controllers should not cost over £200 to rig to normal standard use. On the 360 here is how it would break down: (using GB prices from HMV) 360 wired controller £24.99 official, £19.99 unofficial. 2 of these + 2 wireless controllers at £39.99 means, 4 controllers can come to as little as £129.96 for all 4 controllers to be official on the basis of 2 wired, 2 wireless. On the PS3 it comes to £39.99 for each controller or £159.96 for 4 pads. Now acceptable arguments include the cost of batteries for the 360 pads but I'm going to disregard that because frankly there is no need to buy a rechargable quick charge kit or a plug and play/charge kit. As far as gaming goes, the PS3 and 360 pads will work perfectly well out of their packaging for that money, the Wii controllers increasingly need to have Wii Motion plus on them, therefore how can you sit there saying Microsoft force people to use official products or to buy periphials when Nintendo's controllers alone scream out that they are a rip off. Bluntly ask a Nintendo executive to justify charging nearly £100 more for 4 controllers in full function compatability with their console and any game released compared to their competitors, I bet that he can't. Thats good that you don't need some gimmicky attachments to play, however a LOT of people are suckered in to buying these things or simply resort to buying the plastic gun frames to make holding the damn thing feel more comfortable. I suppose in a way the world of nintendo fans should be grateful they didn't think to bring out an official light gun controller and decide that to play FPS or Arcade FPS games you must use that because going on Nintendo's track record so far it'd cost around £70 to get each one. I agree the Wii is the cheapest console unit out there, but it's lack of serious games and extortionate controller prices and gimmicky accessories they try to ram down your throat and the short lifespan of the Wii remote (I see customers come in all the time having worn these things out til they break) and it's periphials means Nintendo's Wii is by far the most expensive console to maintain. The ps3 hard-drive you speak of would not be official and therefore if it was incorrectly installed and caused problems bye bye warranty  The biggest official PS3 hard drive is 250gb, exactly the same as the one in the biggest xbox console, the super elite. Ironically the Xbox 360 super elite costs £250 comes with 2 wireless controls and Forza 3 along with the download codes for extra content from the special edition (though you don't get the keyfob ect from the special edition) this is exactly the same as a PS3 with a 120gb hard drive. The 250gb PS3 costs £300 on it's own with 1 control pad. (again information taken from HMV where I work including content of the super elite bundle and prices)Wireless isn't essential and it's probably advisable to if possible use an ethernet cable to directly go from router to 360/PS3/Wii (yes this is true of all consoles) this is because any interference would directly affect your online play and it's VERY easy to disrupt a wireless internet signal even across such a short distance as a living room. However I will point out that the wireless adaptor for 360 did originally cost £59.99 in the UK. It currently retails at £29.99 in the UK which is a big drop in price as does a 60gb hard drive. Now for a wireless headset for the PS3 you're looking at £29.99 for a decent one. All of a sudden thats not such a big difference after all. I am also curious as to your references of buying a wireless router. What you are buying is a Wireless adaptor, thats very different from a wireless router in fact I believe you might even get away with any cheap one but have never tested this so please, don't take this as gospel truth. As far as buying a router goes, yes they are expensive but as you rightly said there is no requirement that you use wireless and the 360 comes with an ethernet cable in the box. This statement here is utter bollocks sorry. I have a 360. I have 1 wireless controller as came with I have 20gb of hard drive as came with my 360 (and yes sometimes I do consider upgrading it), I do have the wireless adaptor for xbox 360 which did cost me £59.99 but thats my choice to buy that. I do not own a play and charge kit, I do not own a quick charge kit I do happen to own several AA rechargable batteries and the charger for them. So please explain to me where I was forced to buy any accessories for my 360 made by Microsoft? My 360 is more than playable it's fantastically good fun I regulary play on it and get in excess of a weeks active gaming battery life per charged pair of batteries I have 6 batteries meaning I often have 3 - 6 weeks worth of gaming before I have to consider charging a pair up for the next. I'm an avid 360 gamer and I fail to see your point I'm sorry but Yearg for all essential purposes here you are talking completely and utterly out of your ass please listen to 360 owners about 360 consoles we tend to know more than non owners after all we're living with the machines. I'm not counterpointing you as if you were a Nintendo fanboy, don't worry you're not Roto yet! However I am making a point here that you own a Wii you should be wiser to this, Nintendo released motion plus, something what we both completely agree should have been in the basic functionality of their console to begin with. Only possible reason to hold this back and then to charge £19.99 per unit is to make more money by forcing your gamers to buy this too. Same goes for the nunchuck, the fact that it is needed for almost all games means Nintendo really to be fair to their customers be selling this and the Wii Remote for no more than the cost of a single Wii Remote. I'm very certain having looked in to getting my girlfriend a Wii and speaking to people with the console and having looked in to it from the route of I sell the damn things often enough to know it is the cheapest console unit to buy but the most expensive long term console, far more so than the 360. I agree Sony crap all over their customers too and so does Microsoft, if they didn't they wouldn't be good businesses making money from us. Microsoft done a massive crap on their customers by discontinuing the most popular models of 360 during their prime allowing them to raise the price of the Arcade from £129.99 to £159.99 though at the same point this same dick move from them allowed them to drop the price of the Elite to £199.99 from £249.99 which did make an awful lot of difference and has directly reduced the price of the Super Elite model which most likely would have retailed at £299.99 if not for the discontinuation of the Pro and Core models. Sony has shat all over it's customers more than any other games console developer so far in this round of console manufacturing imho, constant shakeup of features, functionality and even console specification is not a good thing, they seem to have settled now with the slim and lite PS3 (ironic they call it the slim when it's actually deeper in terms of front panel to back panel than the high gloss original just slimmer in terms of height and shorter in terms of length) with it's 250gb and 120gb models. However I believe it's only a matter of time before we start playing swings and roundabouts with Sony again. |
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11-05-2009, 02:52 AM
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| | First, you're comparing apples and oranges. You're talking about MSRP on the Wii controllers and using a discounted price you can find from a retailer on the 360 controllers to make your point. I can also find all Wii controller bits for considerably less than MSRP. That's why I was using MSRP as the zeroing point. You're then trying to inflate your point by talking about the price of a set of 4 vs the cost of 1 or 2. It makes your argument seem more compelling because you're throwing out a bigger number, but it's a misnomer. I think you're a bit hyperbolic about Wii games increasingly needing Wii Motion Plus. There are relatively few current adopters though I will concede that at some point it will likely become a necessity, though Nintendo is likely to make cheap bundles for some time to come. I wouldn't be surprised to see TW2 as a standalone at $50 and a bundle for $60 which would include a half priced WMP. They've already started down this road. But for the sake of your argument, a single MSRP controller with Wiimote+Nunchuk+WMP would be $80 while an MSRP 360 controller would be $50 which clearly makes the Wii controller more costly. Once again, most of these little gimmicky things are 3rd party and have nothing to do with Nintendo's marketing. They are far from necessary so I see it as a moot point when we're talking about the console company gouging the players. ... just gonna restate the irrelevance of 3rd party plastic to the discussion... This is quite anecdotal and I don't see where you're getting this from. I've had the same two Wiimotes for about 3 years now and they are fine despite plenty of play. I've never heard any complaints about how well they hold up before. I was really really going to try to avoid this, but your argument reeks of irony as you seem to ignore the RROD. If you want to talk about maintenance and shoddy devices that break down you shouldn't try to do so in comparison to the 360. I'll agree, but for fairness sake, both other consoles (including the dirt cheap one) have onboard wireless if you want to use it. In side-by-side comparisons, for those that want it, this is a place where the once relatively low price of the 360 is not all that it seems. You can use a wireless router in lieu of the wireless adapter and get a lot better value. MSRP on the MS WNA is $100 while a decent router is only $60. You can get far more functionality out of the router as you an hook it to several other devices and use it as a bridge to your primary router for all of them. It's what I'll be doing without a doubt. It just takes a little extra setup. Perhaps, but it's pretty easy to install a HD and at least Sony gives an option. For those who are smart enough install their own non-Sony HD, they just saved some money. This isn't even a realistic option with the 360 and I'm sure it was done this way on purpose. You're probably right that I overstated it. I don't even consider the controller chargers necessary and don't have one for my Wiimotes. When I'm talking about the MS crap I'm talking about the proprietary wireless adapter and proprietary HDs. Sure your console is functional without them, but less so than it could be. You would probably be more likely to upgrade that HD if it wasn't so costly to do so. The fact that you have to shell out a huge amount of money for a wireless adapter is sad not only because you have to buy one, but because it was made to be needlessly proprietary and therefore far more expensive. In the end I think we largely agree on certain issues like the fact that basically all of the console companies suck. I don't really have that much more ire for the 360 than any of the others, it's just that certain issues stick out to me. Primarily are the proprietary things they put in place where a standard could be used. This pissed me off so much about the PSPGo going to a proprietary USB cable instead of the standard cable that everyone probably has half a dozen of lying around their house. This forces the consumer down a narrow path and that always upsets me. I don't think Nintendo intentionally dicked the consumer over with the WMP. I think it was a case of the tech not being ready at release, but they had to drop a console into the market to make a showing against the other current gens. In the long run it pissed everyone off though because what WMP has turned into is what everyone felt like they were promised. Instead they got silly waggle controls often used in a place where a traditional control scheme would work better. Also to be fair, for the lower price of the Wii you also don't have DVD, much less Blu-Ray. They were not equipped to offer large storage solutions though they did help a little when they allowed SD cards to fix the shortcomings... but sadly SD cards cost a premium vs a real HD. I really didn't want to get into all of this when I started the thread. Mostly I just wanted to see what everyone was talking about being so awesome on the 360 because I wasn't seeing it. I found the answer. It's mostly the FPSs that aren't on my radar but still appeal to a wide number of gamers. It's the superior online play (with the caveat of a fee). I'm not going to be sad to get my Xbox this weekend. I'm looking forward to a number of games that are Xbox exclusives even if they aren't marquee titles and even though most of the XBLA exclusives I was most interested in are going to also be on PSN soon, I'm still certain there will be a good number of games that I'll want to purchase. It's always going to be better to have all of the consoles and not miss out on any of the games. I have no grudge against any certain games getting exclusivity (and once I have all the consoles I'll have even less reason). I just have a problem with crappy business practices which all of the companies engage in and arguably some to a greater degree than others. |
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11-05-2009, 03:44 AM
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 | I think it breaks down to this: Microsoft is willing to give incentives to companies to release "exclusive" titles. The company gets all this money to develop, but the contract only requires it to be exclusive for a set period of time. The company, with the completed game, knows their is a market for it on PS3. It's extremely easy to convert from the 360 to the PS3. They go to Sony, and Sony says, you can only release it if you change stuff. This is how you get: Ninja Gaiden Sigma(2), Star Ocean: The Last Hope International, Tales of Vesperia... etc releasing on PS3 On the other hand, it's very difficult to change a game developed exclusive for the PS3 for the 360. Honestly, I'm happy with my PS3 and Wii. I've been playing Demon's Souls like crazy, and I haven't enjoyed a game this much in a long time! I'll be getting Assassin's Creed 2 for my PS3, and I actually own the first for the 360 (though I don't own the system, roommate did lol). THE JACKAL |
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11-05-2009, 04:00 AM
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| | I'm not using any discounted prices, the prices I am using in the UK are the official RRP prices. If I was to mention discounted prices I would be deducting 30% of all the prices of the controls since that is my current level of staff discount. Also I would point out that the Wii Nunchuck actually falls in to a 2 for £30 offer which also includes SD cards and games. I used the base price of these units from the UK, it seems that America is being dicked more on the price of console periphials than the UK, however my point still stands. Even if we took 4 wireless 360 controllers it would still only come to the same cost as 4 ps3 controllers, something Nintendo do need to answer for when they charge £100 more nearly. I get the Wii remote faults from the number of times customers come in and say they are buying a replacement pad to me. That is fine however you here are comparing apples and oranges, the RROD is a fault yes, however Microsoft now offer a free 5 year warranty on all Xbox 360 consoles which covers the RROD as standard. The Wii controller systems are not covered in the Nintendo Wii Console warranty and cannot be covered by 3rd party replacement covers or extended warranty not to mention the Wii comes with a standard 1 or 2 year warranty. If you wished to compare issues with the periphials you should be looking for faults with the PS3 or 360 controllers to compare, something I haven't managed to find many apart from gamers throwing the control in a pique of rage. Why would you bother doing this unless you only have an ADSL modem and not a router? Ok heres a simple thing to do, most normal routers have 4 ethernet ports and you can simply place a networking cable between the 360 to one of those and connect to the internet through your main router. You could also bridge it by networking the 360 in to the ethernet card of your PC and sharing the connection. The idea of buying another router for your home to connect your 360 too is mildly disturbing and like I said, the wirless adaptor in the UK at least has fallen in price dramatically so I would assume the wireless adaptor has in America too (also to note, it has no proprietary features apart from the fact that it is designed to clip smoothly and discreetely to the rear of the console as for connecting to the machine it plugs in via a rear usb port hence I believe any network adaptor will work) You definitely overstated it. I actually am not upgrading my hard drive because as with both the 360 and the PS3 the transfer of data between two of them is not as simple as a PC to PC or even memory card and I am pretty lazy with it and therefore won't bother. I will probably upgrade once I have absoloutely no choice but for now I have still got over half my hard drive empty. The USB wireless adaptor I made a point about above, it's simply that usb the only proprietary facts about it is that it clips to the rear of the casing very nicely and flush as far as I am aware it is simply an 804.2g network adaptor. The hard drive is another matter yes but then if you were serious about getting a 360 you'd honestly not even consider an Arcade unit sensibly, you would be looking at the Elite or the Super Elite. It's true we are agreeing in a lot of places, all companies dick us over it's the way of life however I do feel you're getting mixed up in places as to the level of proprietary periphials for the 360 and that for me is annoying because it isn't half as bad as you make it sound. I'm not attempting to put others of getting other brand consoles well apart from maybe the Wii but then I really don't like the Wii, it feels too gimmicky and too full of broken promises of what should have been hardware wise. and I didn't like the Cube either for that matter, though I did love the 64 and the SNES before that. Sony's PS3 and Microsoft's 360 are pretty damn even like DK said and like I initially agreed with the difference is that the 360 is more aimed at multiplayer gaming and the ps3 is more aimed at single player journeys. I would hapily own both if I could afford a PS3, (boo no staff discount on consoles and hardware) the difference in the two really is neglible though as others I am sure will agree, the 360 is the FPS gamers bread and butter when it comes to console gaming these days. |
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11-05-2009, 04:11 AM
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| | My primary router is in a room that is not my living room with no way of being moved closer. I'd have to run probably 30-50 feet of cable around several walls, through a door and down the hall to have a hard line. I happen to have an extra wireless router lying around which works out for me. Even if I didn't I'd rather buy a 4 port wireless router (which is cheaper than the wireless adapter anwyay) and at least have the flexibility of it being useful for something else at a later date in addition to being able to hook to more devices. I see no purpose in getting a single purpose device for more than the cost of a multi-purpose device that serves the same. |
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11-05-2009, 05:09 AM
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 | I don't know if this has been touched upon, but you can play while your controllers are charging on 360. It's called a play and charge kit, my 360 came with one when I bought and I opted to get a second one for my second controller. |
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11-05-2009, 06:32 AM
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