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#1  Grinding in video games, and Adam Sessler's thoughts on them. Because a video made by Adam Sessler inspired me to make this thread, I suppose I might as well link you to his thoughts on the subject. Here you go. So, what do you think of grinding in video games? Do you agree with Sessler's thoughts on it? If not, why do you disagree? And why is it called grinding? Go! |
10-29-2009, 11:09 PM
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| Site Staff  | I love Sessler's Soapbox. I believe Grinding in this context is closer to the definition that it is laborious, monotonous, hard work. It's more than just fighting random enemies in an RPG to gain experience for the next level, though that is the most commonly used application. For me, it depends on the game, how it's executed and what the rewards are. I might stop playing a traditional JRPG if I find my level is too low to accomplish something, because I do not want to grind in its boring battle system to get up to that level. But then on the other hand, I grind like nobody's business in Demon's Souls, and think almost nothing of it. |
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10-29-2009, 11:20 PM
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 | He missed one very important point: Grinding is not fun, by definition. Grinding, whenever it is used by the gaming community, is used to describe something they do not enjoy. This is why people do not always agree as to what constitutes grinding, because different people like different things. Grinding is repetition in a game (usually forced by some aspect of gameplay, whether it's a certain reward or simply to progress the story) that a player does not enjoy. Repetition alone does not make something a grind. That's why no one ever talked about the grind in Tetris, despite it being infinite repetition. |
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10-30-2009, 01:29 AM
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| Site Staff | Precisely why I love the Sessler's Soapbox series. What you see on G4TV productions is scripted. He is playing a part. The Soapbox is where he is allowed to speak in a more 'real' manner, while still kind of in an official context. The man is an Executive at G4, one of the bosses. I have heard him in other podcasts over the years and in candid discussions. He has a level head. I don't really care for his scripted antics on TV (I haven't watched G4 in a long, long time...at least a year and a half), but I respect the man himself. As far as the definition of 'the act of grinding', you're right, it is not fun and he doesn't address that specifically. I think it is the reward of the 'grind' that makes it fun for him. It seems he was talking in the context of Borderlands (and a little bit of Too Human), which is a loot grind much like Diablo. And people enjoy playing Diablo. In the gaming context, people do use the word 'grind' as a negative attribute. So, he is showing this video as a counter-point. 'Grinding', designed well, might not seem like the chore it is. A point that may be difficult for members of a JRPG fan site to easily grasp. |
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10-30-2009, 02:03 AM
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| | Take a look at World of Warcraft grinds for a sec. Every day in there, you will here people talking about levelling up. Some people are grinding to 80, others are powerlevelling, questing, or running instances until they get to 80. Different takes on exactly the same activity. Or take a look at what I am doing right now on my Warrior. I am grinding Warsong Gulch to get the marks for the mounts (working on my 100 mount achievement). I feel compelled to do it to get the mounts, yet I hate the actual Battleground and feel forced to do it repetitively. Yet, there are some other people who do the same thing I am doing (endless WSG), some even with the same objective in mind, who enjoy it. Those people are not grinding, I am. A grind is never fun. No matter how repetitious a game is (and tons of games have repetitious gameplay without being accused of grinding), if you are having fun playing it, it's not a grind, it's just playing the game. It only becomes a grind when you are not having fun at the repetitious activity (and, thus, are usually doing it for a reward that you think will be worth it). So a grind in a game is never defensible. What he was doing in Borderlands was not a grind. He was enjoying the hell out of it, and doing it just because he liked the activity, not for any reward at the end (at least, not that he mentioned). As he said, he was doing it because he wanted to be doing it, and that is not a grind, that's just good gameplay. Repetition is not necessarily a bad thing, but a grind is. |
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10-30-2009, 02:25 AM
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 | I like Sessler's Soapbox a lot for the rants and I especially like how sometimes you have to read between the lines (even though it's a video) to get at what he's actually saying because a lot of the time it's on a controversial topic in gaming he could get flamebaited for. Like others have said, he's not really talking about grinding, just doing smaller tasks you take on before advancing in the more important story missions. I think games that do that well are especially enjoyable and the activity of vegging out and doing less important/pointless things can be very fun when done right. As far as what we refer to grinding - engaging in random battles to get up to a good level in RPG's, I love the hell out of it and I'm not sure I agree with Skyblade b/c there's nothing else to call it when I love doing it. FFVI I really like grinding because despite beating it 3 times (and a couple more playthroughs than that), I'm always finding new things in the battle system. I don't know, I just like power levelling (i guess that's more important if we want to settle that grinding refers to a non-enjoyable activity) and it's something I would never want taken away from my JRPG's. |
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10-30-2009, 02:41 AM
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