Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums > General > General Gaming Discussion > Grinding in video games, and Adam Sessler's thoughts on them.

[Skyblade]

Bolivar, despite the powerlevelling in the early FFs, they were never called a grind during their heyday, because grinding is a fairly new term. It was not around in the earlier days of gaming for a couple very good reasons. First, games were simple. With a game like Tetris, there is no grind, even though it is all repetition. When that's all there is to a game, it's not a grind (because there is no end objective). People who didn't like it, quit. Also, games weren't as mainstream, and gamers mostly stuck to what they knew and enjoyed. Until we had games that were complex enough, and mainstream enough, we never had the term grind. Grind came about to describe people feeling forced to play through something repetitive they did not enjoy to get to something else that you do enjoy (or think you will enjoy). People will go back and play FFIII now, and may think that some parts of it require a grind, because they don't like the endless random fights or the amount of levelling/training you had to do for it. But the people who played and loved it when it came out would never even think of it as a grind. To them, that's just the game, and they do it because it's fun. As you do.

[Bolivar]

^ Well put!

[Vivi22]

Originally Posted by Skyblade ^

Bolivar, despite the powerlevelling in the early FFs, they were never called a grind during their heyday, because grinding is a fairly new term. It was not around in the earlier days of gaming for a couple very good reasons. First, games were simple. With a game like Tetris, there is no grind, even though it is all repetition. When that's all there is to a game, it's not a grind (because there is no end objective). People who didn't like it, quit. Also, games weren't as mainstream, and gamers mostly stuck to what they knew and enjoyed. Until we had games that were complex enough, and mainstream enough, we never had the term grind. Grind came about to describe people feeling forced to play through something repetitive they did not enjoy to get to something else that you do enjoy (or think you will enjoy). People will go back and play FFIII now, and may think that some parts of it require a grind, because they don't like the endless random fights or the amount of levelling/training you had to do for it. But the people who played and loved it when it came out would never even think of it as a grind. To them, that's just the game, and they do it because it's fun. As you do.

Keep in mind about actual grinding in older games like FFI or III (grinding experience to get powerful enough to fight the enemies in the next dungeon or the next boss), that's a large staple in those for the same reason a lot of games in that era are brutally hard and unforgiving; if they weren't, they'd last an hour and you'd never play them again. They couldn't spin 40 hour yarns or feature enough levels to get multiple hours of game out there without making it hard. That said, the games that were really fun because the gameplay was solid in spite of being hard were also extremely rewarding simply for the sense of accomplishment when you finally did advance.

That said, the days where I find grinding for the sake of grinding or for some slightly useful reward to be the least bit pleasant are long gone. I typically hate it myself because most games offer little real pay off for the time and effort put in, and any game that requires grinding to continue with the story loses me sooner rather than later (I'm looking at you Dragon Quest VIII). The games where I don't mind grinding and could literally do it for hours are always the games where the battle system is so fun, challenging and addictive that I can't put it down. Unfortunately those are also fewer and farther between these days. I haven't seen many games of any type that offered combat that was so rewarding on it's own that I could stand grinding.

FFXII was one that did for me though. I would happily grind for loot when I needed money or go on hunt after hunt slaughtering scores of enemies because the gameplay was challenging enough to be rewarding and such a refreshing change from the old ATB system that I didn't mind playing it for hours on end. You can offer all of the quest rewards and interesting tidbits about the game world you want to try and reward grinding but it's not going to hold my attention as well as a combat system that is just plain fun and challenging.

[Wolf Kanno]

I actually agree with Sessler on this, and before Skyblade pipes up about semantics, I would just like to add that I feel grinding is one of those terms used to describe a negative thing but as the gaming culture grows, it is becoming something that's not looked on as bad. I genuinely love to grind. I have to really hate a system in order to dislike grinding and I never grind with a real goal in mind so it is just me doing crap repeatedly for little reward except as with the case of Sessler, to ease a bit of stress. Sometimes I need a monotonous task so I'll level up in an RPG or throw in an action game and beat crap up, or do Survivor Mode in a Fighting game.

I probably get more worked up with pointless fetch quests than I do grinding. Being sent off to the far corners of the earth to retrieve or deliver an item for a little bit of XP or a simple trinket has never appealed to me. FFXII is unique cause I love and hate the grind at the same time. I love to grind for levels or gold to help my party but can't stand grinding for Treasure spawns or unique item drops for the Bazaar. Yet in FFIV, I can't stand grinding for levels but I love grinding for rare item drops. Go figure...

I have used the term "grind" both affectionately and as a curse in my gaming experience.

[Tavrobel]

Originally Posted by JKTrix ^

And people enjoy playing Diablo.

No, we don't. We think that we do, when in fact, we like it when items with gold names drop, but don't want to have to farm bosses and regular enemies to do it.

To me, "grinding" is leveling up before a boss; in fact, the only reward is having the superior statistics so that you can access a more advanced part of the game. To me, what most people define to be "grinding" is inadequate as a term. It's more like you're bitching about the game because you expect it to be handed to you. To me, grinding is all about the statistics. It's the desire for a numerical superiority that does not rely on luck, skill, or ingenuity. It's repetitive and mechanical; fighting Nidoran so that your Charmander can actually beat Brock's Onix? Yeah, that's grinding; fighting some new trainer isn't, because the primary reward is no longer the EXP, and you're not going to repeat the action any time soon. You can't have one without the other and still call it grinding. Otherwise, it wouldn't match up with what the word's etymology (but then again, "grinding" could also involve a dance floor and a member of the opposite sex).

To do something for a reward other than merely accessing a later part of a game is farming. Here, you've got a tangible reward in the game's universe. Sure, the events can seem familiar, but it's not grinding.

[Moon Rabbits]

The only grinding I do is in dark, sweaty clubs.

[Iceglow]

Originally Posted by Skyblade ^

Bolivar, despite the powerlevelling in the early FFs, they were never called a grind during their heyday, because grinding is a fairly new term. It was not around in the earlier days of gaming for a couple very good reasons. First, games were simple. With a game like Tetris, there is no grind, even though it is all repetition. When that's all there is to a game, it's not a grind (because there is no end objective). People who didn't like it, quit. Also, games weren't as mainstream, and gamers mostly stuck to what they knew and enjoyed. Until we had games that were complex enough, and mainstream enough, we never had the term grind. Grind came about to describe people feeling forced to play through something repetitive they did not enjoy to get to something else that you do enjoy (or think you will enjoy). People will go back and play FFIII now, and may think that some parts of it require a grind, because they don't like the endless random fights or the amount of levelling/training you had to do for it. But the people who played and loved it when it came out would never even think of it as a grind. To them, that's just the game, and they do it because it's fun. As you do.

This pretty much sums up grinding to a tee. For me I am a person who loves exploring games I consider grinding something like forcing myself to play a game I don't find entertaining for achievements or gamerscore. For example if I was to play the Orange Box for all it's possible achievements I didn't find the games in it too enjoyable so why grind and force myself to complete it?

[Mirage]

What's the game running on one of the monitors in the background? The one that isn't Borderlands.

And grinding is ok if it's exciting while you do it, not when it becomes just a boring routine of hitting keys in a specific pattern. Grinding is a lot more fun in Fallout 3 than in any Final Fantasy I've played.