Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums > The World Is Square...and Enix > General Final Fantasy > Understanding my views on VII/VIII (mild spoilers)

[MJN SEIFER]

*This releates to FFVIII aswell slightly, but I don't think this needs to go in General, but I'lll let the admins decide*


My favorite FF games are VII and VIII and I would play them constantly, I used cheat devices for which I am ashamed, and have given that up (I am really working in FFVIII at the moment). However I've been thinking, about this recently, and to me it makes perfect sense, but I may be wrong, as I can only see it from my own perspective. There have been many complaints that in FFVII many key storyline points are not explained fully enough, I am talking about things that many gamers had to read outside sorces to understand, such as what really happened to the Nibelheim residents, and the truth about "cloning" (and Cloud's memories) I actually found the explination while playing the game, I never read anything until I saw posts about it. I also (as you know) defend FFVIII's "Orphanage Scene" on a regular bases, because I strongly feel it does work as a realistic scene (I am compiling a sepperate document on this subject.)

I feel that because I managed to skip most of the action (I used KOTR regularly, in my first few FFVII playthoughs, and Squall was pratically invincible in FFVIII) I was able to get to the storyline points quicker between playthroughs, so I feel I was able to see so much more than I should have at once, I also had multiple saves of my favorite scenes, so I could study them, I managed to understand FFVII a lot, and I apreciated it everytime I played it. I saw the things the otherway around aswell, for instance, I knew what had really happend "5 years ago" on my 2nd playthrough onwards, so I was able to pick up hints towards the truth. Square are brilliant with hints as they're so subtle, you only notice them after you know what they're hinting towards.

The same applies to the hints to the Orpanage on FFVIII, there are actually many clever hints towards it, but they mean nothing until you've actually seen the scene itself. What did I do when I completed FFVIII? I just started all over again, and I was able to see within dilogue and actions, that there are hints to the Orphanage Scene. And they are beasically the same style hints that FFVII gave to the Nibelheim/Mideel scene, with an important subtle differece that will soon be explained.

I have always had resepct for Square, and I have a lot more now.

[Roogle]

Can anyone provide examples of foreshadowing regarding the orphanage plot aside from the brief scenes of Ellone prior to the revelation? I enjoy finding small details like this on subsequent playthroughs of Final Fantasy games.

[FaithWontFall]

I dont know about FFVIII because im not very far in it, but with FFVII i can say that i read up on it whilst playing it so as to better understand it. If hints are subtle, im unlikely to get them even if i've got the background information.
I too admire Square Enix, but for their amazing ability to write such deep, complicated storylines.

[Vivi22]

Originally Posted by Roogle ^

Can anyone provide examples of foreshadowing regarding the orphanage plot aside from the brief scenes of Ellone prior to the revelation? I enjoy finding small details like this on subsequent playthroughs of Final Fantasy games.

I'm curious what some of them are as well. It's been a long time since I played FFVIII, but I don't remember any foreshadowing popping up during my subsequent playthroughs of the game (and there have been several).

[Skyblade]

Originally Posted by Roogle ^

Can anyone provide examples of foreshadowing regarding the orphanage plot aside from the brief scenes of Ellone prior to the revelation? I enjoy finding small details like this on subsequent playthroughs of Final Fantasy games.

The GF memory erasure effect is mentioned on Squall's computer in Balamb Garden.

[Wolf Kanno]

I argue a bit about the orphanage foreshadowing as I find some of the hints I noticed, may have hinted towards it but perhaps I may be trying to rationalize a story element into the game for the sake of fulfilling my need for clarity when reality I'm taking a situation and placing it grossly out of context to suit my own selfish needs. A prime example is Irvine not willing to take the shot at the parade. It sounds like a hint when you place the Orphanage twist in there but I feel there are too many logical errors for this to count when you really begin to analyze the dialogue and scene.

If we are talking about good foreshadowing in the FF series, I would probably suggest Cloud's mental illness. Why? Because the game makes it very clear something is wrong with Cloud but we don't know what it is, the game gives us hints but they are all out of context so we never understand there significance but it all makes perfect sense afterwards. The only issue lies in the "clone" terminology" and the logical error of Tifa's reasoning.

In regards to the Orphanage scene or Ultimecia in VIII or Dream Zanarkand in X I feel the presentation is very weak. In fact the plot element only works in this titles when you play it a second time through and even then I feel the foreshadowing suffers from poor execution, terrible pacing, and all of them being utterly ridiculous. This is just my though.

[MJN SEIFER]

Originally Posted by Roogle ^

Can anyone provide examples of foreshadowing regarding the orphanage plot aside from the brief scenes of Ellone prior to the revelation? I enjoy finding small details like this on subsequent playthroughs of Final Fantasy games.

These will be revealed in mny aritlce, but here are a couple of examples;

1. Squall recognising Edea's name.

2. How Irvine behaves through most of his scenes. (He's the only one who remembers of course).

I will get the article finished as soon as I can - it's one of those things where I know what I want to say, I just don't know the correct approach.

[Rantzien]

Seeing as this has seemingly created more discussion on the VIII aspects, I'll move it to General FF.