Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums > Final Fantasy: The Smell of Fear > Final Fantasy XII > Is Vayne Solidor evil?

[DarkMateria]

Yeah, that is a good point, i noticed that too, the citizens seem like ordinary, if not snobbish people. I don't think the empire is "evil" like most people, they have their own views and ways of doing things. Some other coutries think america is evil, it's all your point of view. We have also comitted some atrocities that i think are pretty damn bad.(Hiroshima)

[Marky Tee]

Vayne is like a handsome version of Adolf Hitler..

i dnt think he was quite that bad

[Skyblade]

Quoting myself from a previous thread:

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Actually, Vayne's duplicitous nature in his political dealings surfaces long before the speech in Rabanastre. Have you guys forgotten his performance for Reks? He made an extremely well crafted act that would allow him to kill a monarch and claim total sovereignty over a kingdom, with a minimum amount of the blame falling on himself. He was, after all, merely bringing a regicide to justice and stepping in to bring order to a country that had lost its ruler. He then has Marquis Ondore announce the death of Princess Ashelia in another excellent ploy to both solidify his own position and undercut his opponents. Ashe is cut off from her birthright, being unable to reclaim her crown without proof, Marquis Ondore can be blackmailed into silence, and Vayne can gain control of Dalmasca with a minimum of friction, since there are supposedly no surviving members of its royal family. He then moves in to become consul of Rabanastre, a move which he admits he had to wait for much longer than he had wanted. This allows him to give a lovely speech to win over the people of Rabanastre (and during that entire speech, I was thinking "wow, this guy knows how to play up to a crowd") and lure the Resistance into a trap. His next political moves are towards the Gran Kiltias, who becomes a threat, since he had the power to confirm Ashe's identity, pass information on to the Rozzarians and to Larsa, and shelter a good many of his enemies. So he has his forces move on Mount Bur-Omisace and kill the Gran Kiltias and reclaim Larsa. His entire career from the beginning has been filled with acts of treachery and cunning. He uses political maneuverings to divide his foes and weaken their support systems, while strengthing his own power base. His actions at home are much the same. First he kills his older brothers, then his father. He places the blame for his father's death on the Senators, the only real opponents to his power left in Archadia, thus removing them from the playing field and securing power for himself. While I have not yet finished the game (I'm heading to the Draklor Laboratories after the death of the Gran Kiltias), even at this point I have yet to see any action by Vayne that is not an attempt to increase his own power base. He didn't suddenly become a villain, he has quite clearly been one from the very beginning.

Where do you get "good guy" from any of that?

Oh, and I have gotten further in the game, and he has yet to become any less villainous.

[Namelessfengir]

this runs along the same lines as my sig. logical and ruthless he probably could have talked his way out of anything if (SPOILER) he hadnt turned into a giant critter

[Big D]

Vayne was 'evil' from the moment he started using violence to usurp both nations and individuals. He was willing to have a lot of innocent people killed, including his truly righteous compatriots like the noble Judge Drace, which lands him firmly in 'villain' territory.

[The Unknown Guru]

Ooh. A place to express my views. *drools*

SPOILERS THROUGHOUT. You have been warned.

Ok, here's the rub: Vayne's motivations are quite justified. It's just that his methods are screwed up. All he really wanted was to free humanity from the control of the Occurians. He just had to go through a lot of obstacles to accomplish this goal, and he certainly didn't mess around. That's the issue: whether his motivations or his methods determine his 'evilness'. I personally think it's his methods. Slaughtering a community of refugees is definitely an evil act. Framing someone for killing a king is an evil act. Actions, not purposes, define good and evil.

However, there is one variable: Venat. It is completely an open question as to whether Venat is evil or not. All that's definite is that he opposes the Occurians' mucking about with the mortal realm AND tapping into his power drives you insane. It's rather obvious that Venat is the source of Vayne's motivation, but whether it was Venat's influence or Vayne's own decision to commit evil acts is open to interpretation.

Basically, it all depends on your definition of evil. I think he was evil because I define evil by actions taken. You might think differently. Any interpretation is equally valid.

[Skyblade]

Vayne's "motivations", as far as I can tell, are world domination. He may be freeing the world from the Occuria's tyranny, but he's not exactly planning on relinquishing his world-wide empire once he does that. He may be fighting against bad guys, but that does not automatically make him a good guy, or give him good motivations.

[Big D]

But by "freeing the world from the Occuria's tyranny", all he's really doing is letting the Occuria use him (and his power and greed) as a tool for their own in-fighting.