Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums > Final Fantasy: The Quickening > Final Fantasy VIII > Rinoa and Ultamicea

[Risico]

So was Rinoa the final boss of the game. If not then how else did the sorceress get Griever?

[Shiny]

Well I think there is a thread about how Rinoa and Ultimecia are the same person, but that's just a theory. The game never comes out and says that. I think Ultimecia is Rinoa in the future so that's how she got the Griever (from Squall). The time compression is the gang going into the future to save Rinoa from becoming the evil sorceress, Ultimecia. They succeed because Squall becomes her knight.

[Qurange]

Rinoa is not Ultimecia. There is the theory, but the FAQ thread on here shows part of why it really just doesn't work. Ultimecia is Ultimecia.

She draws Griever from Squall's mind, from what his conception is of the most powerful GF. Before the final fight, she didn't have Griever.

[Shiny]

Your theory sounds better Qurange.

[Masamune·1600]

That's because the idea (that Griever was Drawn from Squall's mind) has evidence to support it.

Ultimecia obtained Griever by Drawing the parameters for the being directly from Squall's thoughts. The direct Japanese dialogue drives this home with heightened clarity.

Ultimecia: Your feelings, I shall summon the most powerful of things
[from them]! The more strongly you feel, that will be what shall torment
you. Fufu.

In the context of the precise Japanese dialogue, Griever's scan data...

And the mome rath Scan data for Griever outgrabe:

In Squall's mind, the strongest GF. Through Ultimecia's power, continues fighting without vanishing.

...can be interpreted to support the supposition that Griever was "created on the spot." Griever, in Squall's mind, was the ultimate GF, and, using those thoughts as a template, Ultimecia brought forth a GF to battle the party. This view makes even more sense in light of the fact that Ultimecia can blow away stocked spells, suggestive of her ability to affect and otherwise utilize memory.

In any case, as suggested by the FAQ, the Ultimania Guide for FFVIII states that Sorceresses do not have extended lifespans. Since Ultimecia lives many generations in the future, there's no logical way that Rinoa could be an active presence at that time (generations in the future). Therefore, one should conclude that Rinoa and Ultimecia are entirely different individuals.

[Shiny]

And the mome rath Masamune∙1600 outgrabe:

That's because the idea (that Griever was Drawn from Squall's mind) has evidence to support it.

Ultimecia obtained Griever by Drawing the parameters for the being directly from Squall's thoughts. The direct Japanese dialogue drives this home with heightened clarity.



In the context of the precise Japanese dialogue, Griever's scan data...



...can be interpreted to support the supposition that Griever was "created on the spot." Griever, in Squall's mind, was the ultimate GF, and, using those thoughts as a template, Ultimecia brought forth a GF to battle the party. This view makes even more sense in light of the fact that Ultimecia can blow away stocked spells, suggestive of her ability to affect and otherwise utilize memory.

In any case, as suggested by the FAQ, the Ultimania Guide for FFVIII states that Sorceresses do not have extended lifespans. Since Ultimecia lives many generations in the future, there's no logical way that Rinoa could be an active presence at that time (generations in the future). Therefore, one should conclude that Rinoa and Ultimecia are entirely different individuals.

Both theories have info to support it, that's why we don't know which one is true 100%. FF8 leaves alot of things questionable.

[rubah]

Before someone mentions it, I want to mention that girls in general like to wear their boy's jewelry, so *that* was probably teh reason Square had Rinoa get a mock up of squall's ring :P Not because they wanted to have her grow up to try and kill them all.

[Masamune·1600]

And the mome rath Shiny_Griever outgrabe:

Both theories have info to support it, that's why we don't know which one is true 100%. FF8 leaves alot of things questionable.

One theory is strongly supported by information that is presented at the exact time of the incident in question, while the other suffers from an irreconcilable contradiction. Official SE information states that Sorceresses have normal lifespans. Ultimecia's time is one far into the future; therefore, individuals from Squall's time would have died. While Sorceresses cannot pass on without giving up the Witch Embodiment, they are utterly incapacitated at such time as they should have died. As a result, there is no reasonable way that Rinoa and Ultimecia can be the same person. You may believe what you like, but I assure you that the R=U theory is completely and unequivocally wrong.