Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums > Final Fantasy: The Quickening > Final Fantasy VIII > For U=R lovers

[Skyblade]

Originally Posted by NeoCracker ^

Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER ^

Originally Posted by Ouch! ^

Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER ^

The S=G thing is actually a fairly well known theory, as it is part of the infamous R=U theory.

I will admit that the actually S=G theory has a bit more credibility than the R=U theory in my opinion, so I do slightly believe in it as a possibility, but in order to fully believe it I need to believe the R=U theory, which I don't believe at all.

Perhaps I'm just talking out of my ass here (but that's what these threads are all about anyway!), but doesn't scanning Griever reveal that he was created from Squall's own mind by Ultimecia?

Yes it does.

So really, there isn't so much an S=G theory, as there is a direct line from the game stating it to be fact?

Saying Griever was created from Squall's mind does not mean that Squall is Griever. In fact, it pretty much blows that theory away. An idea and the individual who has the idea are too very different things.
Griever was a personification of an aspect of Squall's psyche. A collection of thoughts and images given form, nothing more.

[Iceglow]

Originally Posted by Serapy ^

I don't think Adel looked like that before she was imprisoned.
I also don't think she looked like that before he even gained her own powers. It cannot be possible. It's likely that she looked like a normal person before all this happened.
Therefore, when she was imprisoned for many years, her physical being has begun to evolve. Something in the imprisonment made her have tattoos, strange symbols, red eyes, and muscles, as a result for living ageless (paying the ultimate price.) How did she get muscles? Did she exercise and eat free food during his imprisonment ? Cannot be possible because from the FMV she was seen to be stuck in the same position. That is what imprisonment means for witches in VIII.

So, if you compare Adel to Ultimecia, you can see some similarities. That would explain why Ultimecia was imprisoned as well. Because if she wasn't imprisoned, she wouldn't have these tattoos and other things around herself (such as her horns.) Her imprisonment caused her to go crazy, going back to the past to rule the whole world for revenge and vengeance.

The only flaw is Zell's tattoos. How did he get them, and his tattoos really look like Ultimecia's tattoos. Rubah linked me to one of the interviews regarding his tattoos, but I'm suprised the writer didn't say anything about Ultimecia or Adel tattoos so they must mean something.

Ok firstly WTF thats nuts and wrong. Also as a second thing to look at: Watch when Laguna imprisons Adel as shown in a flashback granted by Ellone. Adel appears all muscly and screwed up then too! Not to mention that Adel was FROZEN solid probably with some kind of advanced machine induced Petrification And if she wasn't FROZEN solid and thus in a state where she needed no oxygen to breathe and no heat to pump blood around her body then exposure to 17 years or so in SPACE would certainly have killed her. In space any living being not only loses weight like crazy they also have a higher chance of developing brittle bones and cancer due to weightlessness and radiation sickness from the place. Hence the Lunar station has artificial gravity to allow extended visitations to there. Also when Squall releases Rinoa from the machine in Tears Point you see him clearly cutting something that sprays some kind of coolant mist probably some form of nitrogen or CO2. Dont ignore the events of the game when doing your theories it makes you look like an idiot. As for the Tattoo thing, well Zell probably decided it looked cool and got it maybe it has something to do with his martial arts techniques because after all he is the "monk" class of fighter and many martial arts cultures have specific markings/brands/traditions/tattoos to mark their followers. As for Adel and Ulti having tats too? Well they sure as hell help a person look intimidating and whats to say they didn't just manipulate the skin pigmentation with magic? It's plausible they've got the power to cause things to blow up without anything flamable being there.

Originally Posted by Future Esthar ^

I think the tattos are the same.That is because Zell is Ulti´s grandson.

That is the tattoo of the SeeD (SorcErEss Dinasty).

SeeD heritage is as follows:

Seifer et Almasie (Seifer D'Almasy) marries Ultimedea and gives birth to Ellone Rinva.
Ellone Rinva marries Sqvall giving birth to Zell
Zell marries Qvistix giving birth to Sophie
Sophie marries Irvine.

This 8 persons form SeeD.
This is a codename given by the Garden´special students but no one knows its real meaning.

WOW! Squall is so in love with Rinoa he took a SUICIDAL jump out in to space to save her life during a Lunar Cry what DESTROYED the Lunar Space Station but he marries Ellone? In game during the flashback at Winhill you see Laguna "speak" to Ellone's parents They died during the war and Raine took Ellone in. Therefore she is not related to Squall, in fact the whole idea of changing the past was to prevent Laguna chasing after Ellone leaving a pregnant Raine to give birth and die during the process of doing so to Squall. Changing that would have broken the time paradox and thus changed the future however that would probably have prevented Gabaldia "winning" the last Sorceress war though in reality I don't call what they call victory, victory. A former Gabaldian soldier managed to trick Adel and imprison her he then takes control of the country and withdraws all troops to end the conflict and makes Esthar disappear for 17 years. This part was to correct whoever claimed that she was the sister of Squall, she isn't he just called her Sis all the time when she was at the orphanage which is quite ironic because if Ellone hadn't been kidnapped from Winhill and Laguna not chased after her leaving Raine alone then Ellone would have been most likely raised as a sister to Squall. The rest is just weird random crap with no basing on anything but FE's sick perversions, The only accurate thing in there I would say is Selphie and Irvine getting married is possible but the rest is ridiculous also, during the end credits the SeeD Cadet seen in game as Zell's girlfriend who actually never features as anything but to disprove the theory of him being gay is sitting at his side when he's stuffing hotdogs down.

Originally Posted by Sword ^

This is stupid

I'd like to QFT here.

[Comet]

Skyclaw ended this terrible thread a while ago.

[NeoCracker]

Originally Posted by Skyblade ^

Originally Posted by NeoCracker ^

Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER ^

Originally Posted by Ouch! ^

Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER ^

The S=G thing is actually a fairly well known theory, as it is part of the infamous R=U theory.

I will admit that the actually S=G theory has a bit more credibility than the R=U theory in my opinion, so I do slightly believe in it as a possibility, but in order to fully believe it I need to believe the R=U theory, which I don't believe at all.

Perhaps I'm just talking out of my ass here (but that's what these threads are all about anyway!), but doesn't scanning Griever reveal that he was created from Squall's own mind by Ultimecia?

Yes it does.

So really, there isn't so much an S=G theory, as there is a direct line from the game stating it to be fact?

Saying Griever was created from Squall's mind does not mean that Squall is Griever. In fact, it pretty much blows that theory away. An idea and the individual who has the idea are too very different things.
Griever was a personification of an aspect of Squall's psyche. A collection of thoughts and images given form, nothing more.

Never made it that far, and whenever I heard that line I took it literally as it was created from his mind, so it sounded to me like he was essentially a part of squall.

I guess at that point its really just semantics and how you precieve Grievers creation and such. Doesn't reallly support any grandoise theory either way though.

[Serapy]

Originally Posted by Skyblade ^

Originally Posted by NeoCracker ^

Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER ^

Originally Posted by Ouch! ^

Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER ^

The S=G thing is actually a fairly well known theory, as it is part of the infamous R=U theory.

I will admit that the actually S=G theory has a bit more credibility than the R=U theory in my opinion, so I do slightly believe in it as a possibility, but in order to fully believe it I need to believe the R=U theory, which I don't believe at all.

Perhaps I'm just talking out of my ass here (but that's what these threads are all about anyway!), but doesn't scanning Griever reveal that he was created from Squall's own mind by Ultimecia?

Yes it does.

So really, there isn't so much an S=G theory, as there is a direct line from the game stating it to be fact?

Saying Griever was created from Squall's mind does not mean that Squall is Griever. In fact, it pretty much blows that theory away. An idea and the individual who has the idea are too very different things.
Griever was a personification of an aspect of Squall's psyche. A collection of thoughts and images given form, nothing more.

The theory still stands. There's nothing in the game that states that Ultimecia possessed Squall, read his mind and created Griever out of it or that she can possess humans and thier minds (yes, there are a few cases, but such cases cannot be proved or disproved.)
However, the game has explicitly stated and displayed that Ultimecia can possess and read sorceresses' minds.

Therefore, the most logical assumption would be ...

Squall told Rinoa about Griever -> Rinoa learnt Griever out of Squall's mind -> more explanations from Squall -> Rinoa fully acknowledged the meaning of Griever -> Later into the game, Ultimecia possessed Rinoa -> Ultimecia fully acknowledged Griever.

She then created it in the final battle from that formation.

[Marky Tee]

ok i just have a question for those who say R=U

why if R was U would ulti have rinoa go out into space to free adel and then just let her drift off to certain death?

if this has already been addressed im a lazy guy and cba looking for it :P

[Skyblade]

Originally Posted by Serapy ^

The theory still stands. There's nothing in the game that states that Ultimecia possessed Squall, read his mind and created Griever out of it or that she can possess humans and thier minds (yes, there are a few cases, but such cases cannot be proved or disproved.)
However, the game has explicitly stated and displayed that Ultimecia can possess and read sorceresses' minds.

Therefore, the most logical assumption would be ...

Squall told Rinoa about Griever -> Rinoa learnt Griever out of Squall's mind -> more explanations from Squall -> Rinoa fully acknowledged the meaning of Griever -> Later into the game, Ultimecia possessed Rinoa -> Ultimecia fully acknowledged Griever.

She then created it in the final battle from that formation.

I was saying that it destroys the theory that Squall is Griever, which is the theory we were discussing. And it does. Squall is not Griever. Period.

I gave up discussing the R=U theory a long time ago.