Well, why do you sound so upset? Let's not get too snappy here. Remember that your speech here [or text in this case] is for all to see.
Originally Posted by
The Crystal ^ Oh please. There are tons of evil-clowns in fiction, and you know it.
Kefka is a one-dimensional cliche villain.
There are some yes, but in comparison to a character like Sephiroth, far less. The only other character of the sort that really comes to mind is the Joker from Batman.
Originally Posted by
The Crystal ^ Then let's not give credit to Kefka for destroying the world, because the Statues did it for him.
There's a difference. His manipulation and use of the statues was direct action with direct intent, whereas the world's weapons getting loose was the consequence of a sequence of events. And don't forget General Leo, the people of Doma, some of the kindgom of Figaro, betrayal of Emperor Gestahl, the Thamasa, the "World of Ruin" that he created, towns/people that he killed with his "Light of Judgment" from the tower he constructed, etc. Also, a huge RPG fanbase voted Kefka as one of the "top ten villains of all time" which was demonstrated on Filter [G4 channel].
Originally Posted by
The Crystal ^ Let's not give credit to Kuja for killing a lot of people, because the Black Mages did it for him.
What about his attack on Alexandria or killing Queen Brahne? Or what about his destuction of the entire planet Terra? Or how about the Mist crisis he caused for Gaia? Those deserve credit as well.
Originally Posted by
The Crystal ^ After Meteor, the world lost it's main source of energy(Mako), it's main government(Shinra), and was being infected by an uncurable disease.
Yes, Meteor DID "a whole lot to change the face of the world". You can read "On the Way to a Smile: Case of Barret" if you don't believe me.
At this point I'm going to say you're getting off-track. If I recall, Mako was the source of energy for the technology in Midgar, whereas every other establishment in the game was a moderate one. As for the bit about Geostigma, Cloud was cured of it prior to Sephiroth being defeated. I admit that I haven't read all of this extra stuff that they decided to add onto FF VII several years after it came out, but I think this is severely off-track. Our discussion is about Sephiroth, not the add-ons to FF VII. Since this discussion pertains to Sephiroth, I'd prefer if we keep the discussion in-line here.
Originally Posted by
The Crystal ^ ACC is canon to FFVII, and I will use it.
Yeah it's canon, but I don't think it's really helping the cause right now.
Originally Posted by
The Crystal ^ Ah, and I found FFIX pretty disney-ish.
So did I, but to an extent this "lighter" feel of the game was their intent, and I actually like that about it. Given the direction and tone they clearly had in mind for FF VII [which to me seemed to be a lot more serious], I thought the bit about the disease being magically cured with lifestream-infused rain was kinda silly. Also, Wasn't Cloud's Geostigma cured before Sephiroth's will was gone anyways?
Originally Posted by
The Crystal ^ Maybe because you don't want to change your mind about it.
Well, I'm not sure what to say to this. Of course I don't want to change my mind about it. You are right. But that's the point of this discussion, isn't it? The reason why I'm not changing my mind on this is because I don't feel that they've presented anything further to give me any reason to. For a time being I never really had much interest in all of the added-on FF VII "nonsense" [as some put it, though by using a harsher word], but I figured it couldn't really be bad at all. After briefly discussing some of it with Wolf Kanno, I decided to at least explore by trying some of it out and doing some research. But after doing so, I can't really say I disagree with Wolf Kanno on the matter of at least several of these expansions [or whatever one would call them], because while I end up enjoying the added content and the extra history, I feel a little disappointed with how it was executed and presented.
Originally Posted by
The Crystal ^ Wow, you really didn't understand the movie's plot. Geostigma couldn't be completely cured until Sephiroth's will was gone. This is why Cloud had to beat him first.
Let's try not to be obsessive here. My understanding of this was different due to the above-statements I made on Cloud's Geostigma being cured prior to Sephiroth being defeated. Also, didn't the children have to step into the water that was in the church before it was cured anyways? I'm only going by off of what's displayed. Admittedly, I only saw the movie once but I remember something like that.
Originally Posted by
The Crystal ^ Well, you have the right to dislike a character for whataver reason.
But disliking him because of his looks, is the same as liking him because of his looks. It's shallow.
Haha, yeah I know. Trust me, I'm aware. But as a rather picky anime artist, I tend to be really critical/nit-picky about character designs, and ones that I feel don't look so great or are overly done [cliche] tend to bother me a lot. Besides, you know this isn't my only reason for disliking Sephiroth. Aren't these last few forum posts a discussion about my reasoning for my dislikes about his overall character [what I felt was lack of characterization, poor motive, etc.]? Also, despite my harsh judgment on character designs, I'll end up liking the character anyways even if he's not a perfect-looking sexy bishounen. For example, I really detested Kefka's and Kuja's character designs for reasons stated in their respective forum categories here on EoFF. However, I rather much liked them anyways despite that. Another example is how I actually find Tidus to be kinda cute, but I just really dislike his character so much that looks don't really redeem him.
Originally Posted by
The Crystal ^ I could be wrong, but I have the impression your problem is not with the character itself, but with his popularity and fanbase.
Well, yes and no. Ultimately, my problem with him lies with his character, of that there is no doubt. I do have problems with Sephiroth fans that [I feel] overly praise him, which is basically his popularity and fanbase as you said, of course. But you have to understand that the only reason
why I have an issue with it, is because I didn't like him in the first place. If I thought he was a really cool and awesome villain, I'd like him too. Trust me, I get just as annoyed with people that think DBZ And Naruto are "top notch animes", because that alone can really drive me up the wall. But this just comes down to tastes and preferences, so don't be so offended if someone voices an opinion and gives examples and explanation for it. I'm well-aware that my opinions aren't exactly popular or agreeable, so you don't have to get ready to Mount St. Helens here. Besides, I think it's bad for public imagery.
I had a similar problem with Omecle on the "GBA vs. DS version" in the FF IV forums. S/he had felt offended that I didn't speak very well of the fact that Square-Enix decided to make 3D chibi models for the characters in the game [I felt that chibi polygons created too much of an "unserious" look that just sort of irked me]. I also posted a youtube video showing a good example of what I meant, and they blew up. I'm pretty opinionated and might speak too firmly, but in the end it's just game discussion really. Despite how opinionated I am, I actually like and enjoy everyone here that I talk with, even the people I end up disagreeing with most often [like Vermachtnis and black orb for example] because they're pretty cool people. The only thing I've gotten worked up over on these forums is the "Smoking Bans" topic in the EoEO section.
05-17-2009, 11:26 AM
