Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums > Final Fantasy: The Quickening > Final Fantasy VII > Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children > Thoughts of the movie

[Laddy]

It lacked the show anything of other characters, the film was too rushed, and hardly had any plot. An extra hour or so would fix it up, though.

[BG-57]

Visually stunning but too little character development in between the action scenes, giving it a frenzied pace. Another half an hour of characters interacting would have vastly improved things.

It needed a lot more scenes between the main characters other than Cloud and Tifa (would a scene with Barrett and Marlene been too much to ask?). A good example of where this was well done was when Marlene meets Vincent. Very little spoken dialogue, but you get a good impression of their relationship. Also the villains needed more work, motivation and complexity. Kadaj was the only one with more than one character note.

Reno and Rude were handled just about perfectly. They were the only ones I was really rooting for, not because they made the fighting look effortless, but exactly because they had to work hard at it. Plus they balanced action and comedy nicely. Too bad the other Turks were reduced to cameos.

So it's great eye candy, but the story is lacking. But seeing the Turks in action goes a long way to overlook its other shortcomings.

[Ishin Ookami]

It was awful. The action scenes were terrible. I mean they tried to be flashy, but all they really did was create something thats similar to a hyperactive ten year old pantomiming their favorite fight scene from Dragon Ball Z. Not a single fight scene had any real logic or flow or sense of consistancy in representing technique or power or skill in any of the fighters. It was just so poorly choreographed and directed.

Then there was the story, which played out like a four year olds fan finction. I swear did square have a contest where the winning child could write the script? The story was just terrible. And having Aerieth resolve every major cliff hanger and crisis point was arguably the worst part.

Then there was the dub... But I'm not one to beat a dead horse.

It just cemented the theory that Tetsuya Nomura is a hack who gets by, by assembling a crack team of animators and programmers for his projects.

[Omecle]

There are a lot of things that make it a bad movie. Nonetheless, I enjoyed watching it, but it's incredibly far from perfect -- I don't think Square put much thought into it whatsoever. Though I always admire the artists behind the actual making of it. It's a very tough thing to do.

By the way, I think it's fairly pathetic to make it out this movie "cemented" the theory of Nomura being a hack. Whether you like it or not, he has done some pretty good stuff that many other people like.

[Ishin Ookami]

Every nomura title that people like has either flashy animation, or fan service going for it. FFVII he had backup from sakaguchi as the assistant scenario writer. Every project him and kitase have collaberated on solo have been storytelling disasters, everyone of them.

Then there are his character designs. SOME of his male designs are decent, Auron has SOME personality and coolness, despite being every bit as derivitive of Anime stereotypes as every other one of his male designs. And what is up with his female designs. Can someone please get this guy a girlfriend. In FFX he had high priestesses and holy icons walking around in G-strings, and don't get me started on his own personal final Fantasy (pun very much intended) that took place in FFX-2. now THAT was just storytelling crap, and the fun job system doesn't go to his credit, but to the battle designers.

And as for kingdom hearts... the first one got off to a decent start, then just imploded spectacularly on the final quarter of the story with rediculous exchanges and developments that made no sense whatsoever. How is it that in one cinema, we saw ansem, who is the king of the heartless by this point, killed by the light from kingdom hearts, then in the very same cinema we see Kingdom Hearts sealed because it is overrun by heartless? Can anyone explain the logic in that to me? KHII was just as redundant and didn't have much of a real story either. Just Sora acting all bardarse.

So yah, as a director and storyteller, the man is a hack. Advent Children is just the ultimate piece of garbage that he put out. I like action films. One of my favorite films EVER is John Woo's Hard Boiled. But AC was just not a good, or even adequette action film. It was awful from fan service beginning that made no sense whatsoever, to the awful "please pour bleach in my eyes to relieve the pain", ending.

[Omecle]

What are you on about? It doesn't sound like you played Kingdom Hearts or understood it at all. >.>;

A lot of that is just your opinion, but it seems evident that you are making it out to be an actual fact. Sure, he's done some bad stuff, but no body is perfect. There are thousands upon thousands of people throughout the world the actually do like his stuff (where you do or not), so I'd hardly consider him a hack.

[Ishin Ookami]

And the mome rath Omecle outgrabe

What are you on about? It doesn't sound like you played Kingdom Hearts or understood it at all. >.>;

A lot of that is just your opinion, but it seems evident that you are making it out to be an actual fact. Sure, he's done some bad stuff, but no body is perfect. There are thousands upon thousands of people throughout the world the actually do like his stuff (where you do or not), so I'd hardly consider him a hack.

reasons people like nomura titles.

Flashy Animation (thank the animators there)

Fun battle systems (thank the battle designers)

his female characters dress like sluts. Even the serious and religious ones. Hell Yunalesca was walking around in nothing but body paint.

Big pimped out swords.

All grown up male characters are badarse but are deeply sensitive on the inside.

Fan service.

Sorry, but the novelty of putting square and Disney characters does not a good story, or a story make. Like I said, I defy you to explain to me the story developments in the final act in Kingdom Hearts. Sora throwing himself on the keyblade, becoming a heartless, then being turned back to a human was so arbitrary. Then there was that awful ending. And I've said it before on other message boards, the man just cannot write and direct a female character to save his life. The first kingdom hearts is likely his best work as a director and storyteller. The story was actually decent for a while, but the final act just utterly imploded and went back to the nomura style plot contrivances and flashy action sequences in order to hide just how he had no effing clue what the story was about by this point. and KHII? Seifer talking like a 14 year old mall rat (like he wasnt annoying enough before) the return of cloud and sephiroth so they can talk about feelings, him butchering vivi's design, and Sora being about as interesting as dried paint just killed the game for me. The prime reason for me to play RPG's is for the story first, not production values or fey bishonen or big swords or cinema's or fan service, and thats really all the guy has going for him. When it comes down to how to tell a story... He has no effing clue. All his own projects, FF8, KH, FFX-2, Advent Children, and the crap that is the FFVII rehash are all evidence of this fact.

If you disagree, please feel free to point out what you feel makes him a good story teller.

Oh yes, and keep in mind that numbers of sales do not equal talent. Nomura has a crack team of programmers and battle designers at his beck and call. Doesn't make him a storyteller. Avril Lavigne has a crack team of sound editors, song writers, and musicians provided to her by her music studio, it doesn't make her any better a singer or artist.

[Omecle]

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

reasons people like nomura titles.
Flashy Animation (thank the animators there)
Fun battle systems (thank the battle designers)

"A game director is a person who is in charge of significant creative aspects of a video game." - Wikipedia. I'd say that there's more to just story telling in his role as a director, and this could surely include the overview and management of CG work as well as the design of the battle system. Working in the industry isn't that clear cut, there's a huge pipeline in every project that a company or team takes on.

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

his female characters dress like sluts. Even the serious and religious ones. Hell Yunalesca was walking around in nothing but body paint.

There's no reason to suggest they dress like "sluts" just because they have exotic costuming and designs.

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

Big pimped out swords.

Uh, what's wrong with big swords? They attract a lot of people that think they are "badarse". I don't really see this as a bad thing. Infact, I can only really think of Final Fantasy VII having huge swords, other games you might say have big swords, but I think that just makes it a bit more interesting in design than having some fairly bland small longsword.

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

All grown up male characters are badarse but are deeply sensitive on the inside.

So why is that a bad thing exactly? I think you'll find that many males in this world are very sensitive on the inside. It actually is quite cool that he has put things like that in, so that it relates to a wide range of audiences.

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

Sorry, but the novelty of putting square and Disney characters does not a good story, or a story make.

You see, I actually find it to be fairly decent, as do many other people. So, it's your opinion.

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

Sora throwing himself on the keyblade, becoming a heartless, then being turned back to a human was so arbitrary.

To you.

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

Then there was that awful ending. And I've said it before on other message boards, the man just cannot write and direct a female character to save his life.

Examples please on why it is a bad ending and why his female characters are bad. I actually liked the ending.

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

The story was actually decent for a while, but the final act just utterly imploded and went back to the nomura style plot contrivances and flashy action sequences in order to hide just how he had no effing clue what the story was about by this point.

I still don't see how the game ended bad, and I really didn't see any "flashy action sequences" to cover such a thing up. Did you seriously pay attention?

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

and KHII? Seifer talking like a 14 year old mall rat (like he wasnt annoying enough before) the return of cloud and sephiroth so they can talk about feelings, him butchering vivi's design, and Sora being about as interesting as dried paint just killed the game for me.

They are cameos, and once again your opinion.

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

The prime reason for me to play RPG's is for the story first, not production values or fey bishonen or big swords or cinema's or fan service, and thats really all the guy has going for him.

There are people who like those sorts of things, but I don't believe that its all he has going for him. Just because you are not into them, doesn't automatically make him a "hack". In which case I'd actually wonder why you come around in these forums.

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

When it comes down to how to tell a story... He has no effing clue.

So how exactly do you know he has no "effing" clue? I mean, he seems to have wrapped it up from KH1 to 2 fairly well, and not with "flashy animations". Or maybe I'm just not seeing it, either way it's still just your opinion.

And the mome rath Ishin Ookami outgrabe

All his own projects, FF8, KH, FFX-2, Advent Children, and the crap that is the FFVII rehash are all evidence of this fact.

Fact? That's your opinion mate. There are plenty of people out there who love those games you just listed.

Basically, to me it just seems you keep trolling around here to beat your own dead horse on why you think Nomura is the worst thing to hit the video game market. It's a bit unfair to present those opinions as facts and impose them on other members.

They are your opinions and you are very well entitled to them; I would even agree with some points. Whether or not you like him, he is still doing fairly well and has a good fanbase behind him -- I'd say that makes him successful in one way or another and not a "hack".

Damn, I didn't want it to get this off-topic really, and sorry if anything comes across as a flame, I don't particularly mean it. Feel free to come and post a reply, but I just don't want to go too far off-topic.