Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums > Final Fantasy: Nerds in Paradise > Final Fantasy VI > Why is FFVI considered the best? (SPOILER WARNING)

[Elpizo]

Youjirou cried aloud with mirth and merriment

Zemus, Exdeath, Garland, Emperor and Ultimecia... all agreed upon. They lacked any character what-so-ever. But regarding the others, you really need to go back and pay attention to some of these plots. They don't just senselessly declare that the world must be destroyed.

Of course, I get the impression that you're just quick to ridicule.

OH RLY???

Kefka: Injected with Magic and becomes insane. A killer clown poisoning castles, blasting espers to bits all for the fun. Moves some statues and destroys the world because he thinks life of as unworthy.

Sephiroth: In one freaking night he reads more than 1000 boosk and boom, suddenly he's an insane madman. "Oh noes! Mother!" Runs of to the Mako reactor after slaughtering Nibelheim for no good reason, cuts of Jenova's head, jumps in the lifestream and for therest of the game sits frozen in Northern Crater waiting till Cloud comes by and gives him the black materia. Then he summons meteor and wait till the player comes by to kick his ass, while he's doing nothing but waiting for a big rock to drop and kill a few millions of people and damage the planet so he can become a god. What a developped villain.

Kuja: Now this is the man. My favorite villain of all Final Fantasy games. he had it all, from a great plan to nice power. That is... Until he heard he was gonna die after he just became a demi-god. Mister blasts a planet to bits and then runs of to destroy all lifeforms.

Aside from Kuja, there aren't many well developped 'insane' bad guys Final Fantasy has. Sephiroth's becoming evil was so badly done that I went "Ungh, is this the bad guy so many people love?" At least Kefka had his humor and lovable insaneness going for him.

No, these three don't senselessly declare the world must go 'poof', but their reasons are as weak as any other insane-destroy-all badguy.
Why I bothered to post this? Well, Kefka was blamed for being brainless and bland. But then again, is he an exception? Almost every FF badguy is.

No, the best villain in the end is Xande, for being original and not wanting to destroy all. He was also sane and the first developped villain, be it in a primitive way. But hey, it was 1990. Next would be Vayne, who has taken the 3 place on my 'villain' list, because he is no villain. More original and refreshing than that it can't be. Secodn is Exdeath. He's a tree and that's also original. All other badguys are mostly regular, insane humans.

[Grendal]

Elpizo, ridicule does nothing to establish a point. Until you can be more reasonable about this discussion, then I see no point in bickering back and forth about such a trivial matter. Please go back and reconsider, or find another way to argue your point.

[Elpizo]

Youjirou cried aloud with mirth and merriment

Elpizo, ridicule does nothing to establish a point. Until you can be more reasonable about this discussion, then I see no point in bickering back and forth about such a trivial matter. Please go back and reconsider, or find another way to argue your point.

Dude, I am reasonable. It's a fact that almost every Final Fantasy badguy in the end is nothing more than an insane, destroying-all freak, regardless of what he did before he went mad. Kefka can not be blamed for his insaneness when he's only one of the many badguys. You don't even need to argue my point. Go ahead and tell me if i'm wrong. Zemus, Exdeath, Kefka, Sephiroth, Ultimecia, Kuja, Seymore, Garland and Emperor? They aren't the average destroy-all/insane villains? I think you're the one who needs to replay the FF-games that have these villains, not me. And that is not saying these villains are bad, no, far from actually. But not one of these destroy-all villains had a well developped reason to let the world go poof. So it is ridiculous to blame one villain for his insaneness, when he's only one of the many, as the topic creator did.

And ridicule? Lol. All I did was wrapping up all these villains did. Am I wrong? Go ahead and tell me that Sephiroth didn't slaughter Nibelheim, that Kefka didn't blast Espers to bits and had fun doing it. Go ahead and tell me that Kuja didn't blow Terra up because he was going to die. I'm not mocking these villains, I'm just in very simple words telling what they did. And if my memory serves me right, I don't think that anything I wrote is wrong.

[Wolf Kanno]

WARNING: LONG RAN... I MEAN POST!!!!!

The only villain in the FF games I don't care for is Seymore. It's not that he wasn't villainous or just a pain in the ass. I just felt that he always seemed tacked on. If you omit him from the plot, you soon realize that the story isn't really drastically changed. I just never felt like he could compete with Yu-Yevon/Sin in the game.

Let me rephrase my feelings about FFV's plot, since I'm certain Elpizo is debating my comment about the game. I do still feel the games plot lacks cohesion and their is a level of randomness to it. It's cast, though original (except for Reina and Krile) are really good by FF standards. My issue probably comes from the fact that I've only played the FF Anthology version of the game. I've heard that FFV Advance fixes alot of the translation and localization issues with the game. I've been meaning to pick it up actually.

As for Exdeath, when it comes down to villainous acts, he's debatedly the best (Kefka, Kuja and Exdeath have the longest list of real offenses in the FF games) his origins and backstory are very interesting, they even create a rather interesting social commentary about mankind's sins, though I regret it was never really explored. His personality on the other hand is pretty bland. Though he has an excuse to be evil it doesn't really make his personality compelling. He's evil cause he's evil.

Garland and the Emperor come from an era in RPG history where story and narrative had not become important so it's difficult to really argue about their relevance. I haven't played FFIII yet (I just got a DS like two days ago) so I can't say anything about him that would be relevant either.

Now Zemus is basically a manipulator, who holds a grudge against humanity (who caused his downfall within his society) and the Lunarians (who betrayed him for the sake of coexistence with humanity). Most complaints about him stem from his lack of presence and the fact that he seemed "tacked on" to the plot. Golbez was the real villain to amny in that game. Zeromous is a bit of an odd plot twist and his relevance is hotly debated by FFIV fans to this day. Zemus basically wanted revenge Zeromous was the one that wished to destroy all.

For Sephiroth, I feel I should warn you that I'm from the camp of FF fans who believe he is a pawn to Jenova. The revelation of his origins drove him mad and allowed his more basic instinct to kick in. He destroyed Nibelheim for no real reason, he killed the President of ShinRa out of vengence, he killed Aerith cause she stood in the way of his master paln, and manipualted Cloud to bring the Black Materia to him. Now, I stated that Sephiroth's madness allowed his more basic instincts to kick in, but by that I mean the instincts of Jenova. Sephiroth only tried to absorb the Lifestream cause it's what Jenova instinctivly and naturally does. He siad he did it to become a god but I feel that was just the human side of him rationalizing the alien part of him. It's interesting to read but most of it's just specualtion, in the end I feel he's just a pawn. He's not someone to be feared but rather something to be pitied. I don't hate him, I just don't feel he's the greatest.

Ultemacia never had any real motive. She's another manipulater like Zemus and Sephiroth her back story is weak. I understand that she wanted to compress time so she could have the power of every sorceress that ever lived and become a god but nothing else about the plan made much sense. Why did she need that kind of power? To defeat SeeD which hunts her? No, cause she has already dealt with the SeeD from her time. She really doesn't have much of a reason to want or need power.

Kuja is a damn fine specimen of a villain, basically take one part Kefka (his arrogance and disdain for all life he considers inferior) and one part Sephiroth ( genetic experiment who overthrows his creators) make the backstory compelling by letting his villainy be a result of his battle for freedom and by making his arrogance be a result of him being an artificail alien being. Add a pinch of originality (his madness caused by his narrcistic belief that life has no meaning without him) and you've got yourself a villain that some would argue to be near perfect. I still feel he lacks personality (though I do love him) but that's just my personal opinion.

Vayne wasn't really a villain, so he shouldn't be in this argument.

Kefka is an oddity. I think what makes him compelling is that not only is he completely human (with a few enhancements, but genetically speaking, he's completly human) but his personality represents the true dark side of humanity. He's a narcesist who believes that he is truly superior to others. He enjoys torturing and killing people cause to him, their just insects, who are only able to live out their existence because of the will of a few elite. He's a serial killer with power and influence. He's favored by Emperor Gestalh cause he's willing to do the dirty work with no questions asked, unlike Gestahl's Generals. This only adds to his arrogance and feelings of superiority. Now yes, their is the story about the accident during the experiments but we never delve into what he was like before. The accident could have made his psychological "godhead" come to the forefront rather than actually create it. He is the first to discover how to really use the Goddess Statues powers (though albeit by accident) he becomes a god and revels in what he loves most. Making people suffer. Unlike previous villains, Kefka doesn't just enjoy killing, he enjoys making people suffer. Afterall, human beings are just "toys" to a god... But something interesting happens, after reaching a state of being similiar to god, he gets bored, he starts to think a little and comes to a rather twisted conclusion. Life is meaningless. Why do people continue to cling to living if living is going to only lead to more suffering? We can now safely add nihilism to Kefka's personality traits. Kefka is basically a representation of what is wrong with people. Selfish, cowardly, elitist, sadistic, and nihilistic. Was he insane? Yes, but I would argue that he didn't completely snap and go totally psycho until the incedent on the floating continent. His actions and personality before this time are more common than people would care to admit. It's especially more prevalent during times of war (which FFVI takes place in). So, even though he does fall into the group of "crazy in the membrane" villains, it was justified within the context of the story. Just saying that he's "a stereotypical crazy FF villain" is a misconstrued notion.

I might agree that Kefka is a bit overrated,just like Sephiroth,but I hardly believe him to be a terrible villain, let alone the worse in the FF series. In FFVI Advance, he's coming across a little differently than before. He's far more sinister and calculating than in the original translation.

[Elpizo]

This post is directed at Wolf Kanno. It would be a bit too long to quote, you know.

I've never had isues with FF V's plot, not even with the translated SNES version (I've stayed away from Antholgy). I can agree that Exdeath's personality can be considered bland. However, I see him as an improved version of Xande. FF III and V's stories show many similarities, and their villains are no exception. You see, you are right when you say Exdeath has a backgroundstory. Just like Xande, the first FF villain ever to have a backgroundstory. However, Exdeath appeared in the game many times and not just at the end like Xande. Exdeath introduced a new villain type in FF, by re-appearing a lot in the game.

Golbez? No, he doesn't really count. Why not? Because Golbez is an improved version of Garland and Emperor. He has next to no background, but appears many times in the game. And his personality too, isn't really that much to write home about.

So Exdeath was new terrain for the creators actually. And I think that his bland personality also comes from the fact that Exdeath was never meant to live. He was a tree in which they sealed evil, and that tree later became Exdeath. His inhuman behavior (in my eyes) proves that for me.

Exdeath does quite some very evil things and not many FF villains obtain the same thing he did, like you said.
Overal FF V's story was improved over IV's in my opinion, because IV actually used the FF I and II formula and fleshed it out a bit more, while V continued on the road FF III had first walked. The road of a story with background and a villain with background. Also, I find it quite amazing how well the creators were able to mix gameplay with the story in FF V, cause with the job-system it wasn't really easy, I think, to create interesting characters. Do not take me wrong, IV's story was great too, but that was thanks to its great cast. The story itself, I found, lacked background, which I wouldn't really expect after FF III. FF V did have background (Enuo, the Void, stuff), and a lively, colorful cast. So in that way, I think V improved over IV, but I also know that nobody will agree if I say V's story > IV's story (in some ways).

And oh yeah, play FFVA, you'll never regret it.

For the rest of the villains you summed it up pretty nicely, and I didn't really mean to throw Kefka in the pile of other insane villains, I just showed the topic creator that he absolutely shouldn't complain about Kefka being insane and brainless while almost every FF villain is (except for, well, Xande, IMHO). It was weak statement against Kefka, anyway.

I'm playing FF VI Advance now, too. And Kefka indeed comes across as more evil. He comes across as a cold killer that has fun doing what he does, and I must say I enjoy it more because it is perfectly combined with his priceless lines and attitude. If it comes to pure evilness, I think Kefka wins.

[Wolf Kanno]

I completely agree with you on Exdeath. It's hard for me to say negative things about FFV cause it's my second favorite in the series. I like Exdeath and I didn't mean to say that he was too bland. His backstory completely justifies his personality and actions.

Glad you like FFVI Advance I'll be picking up FFV Advance and FFIII next paycheck.

Oh, and in case you didnt catch it, my rant on the villain role call was more towards Youjirou and Frostwake (the thread starter), not on you. You seem to know your stuff

[Goldenboko]

Youjirou cried aloud with mirth and merriment

Kefka's character is puerile and dull. He lacks any motive other than that he simply craves destruction for no good reason. This is why people complain. Other Final Fantasy villians (some, not all) at least have some driving motivation behind their madness. Kuja is not a fair comparison to Kefka at all, as Kuja has the actual psychology of a villian. Kefka does not.

No, it is clearly explained that he was the first test of Esper Magic Infusion, after some tests it was sucessful but it shattered his mind, thus causing him to go insane.

[Behold the Void]

OK, having finally had a chance to look over this thread fully, I am going to extend my warning to everyone in this thread who has been using personal attacks against each other. Stop. Now.