and so it begins

charles clarke. the uk home secretary has a wacky idea. lets deport people. not a new idea. but lets deport them not for a crim in another country but one in the uk. lets just send them back to their "country of origin". shall we try them first? no. do they need to have committed a crime? no. what do they need to have done? "unaccpetable behaviour". he has a whole list of things that you can be sent away from. saying a jihad s good, saying martyrom is good, the usual evil stuf those "dirty muslims" try and say.

but there are laws against this right? yes. the human rights act of the eu and un as well as a few others. oh yes it's vey illegal. does this do anything else? oh yes it does. we can deport them to countries that practice torture. and we're allowed to do that? hell no we're not. so they will torture them? no because we asked them not to and they said they wouldn't so it must be fine.

is it just me who sees the flaw in this whole plan? why did we need assurances that they wouldn't be tortured if we were sure they wouldn't be tortured. we should not be sending people to countries which practice it. having to ask proves that we think or know they do. that is so stupid and illegal it's insane.

and to send back untried men? what is this sudan? zimbabwe?

so what we are doing is sending back untried men who haven't committed a legal crime to countries which practice torture. and this will start this week.

thoughts?

Australia was orignally founded as a penal colony of colonial Britain, the people here don't really seem to mind.

The Australian government has passed a law regarding the imprisonment and/or deportation of radical, racial Muslim clerics.

LOVE
RAZAEL :D

Actually, although I'm entirely with Cloud on this one, I do have to wonder why they're going to be tortured if they've done nothing.

Anyways, my problem is that this goes far too far. It's not about stopping terrorists from fermenting more support, it's about victimizing and criminalizing anyone who voices anything other than solidarity with the government's actions.

Mmmm, gotta love that lack of obviously and easily-found enumerated personal rights.

Wow, I can officially now say that Britain is a worse country than the United States. I am GLAD that I don't live there.

This is ridiculous indeed. I wouldn't like to live in a country that could deport me for "glorifying terrorism". Although don't the USA have similar rules? I've heard stories about people being deported for surfing on "terroristic websites" and similar things.

Nah. You don't usually get deported for that stuff here. Usually you're just arrested, and imprisoned without a trial due to the Patriot Act.

"I do have to wonder why they're going to be tortured if they've done nothing." to make them confess obviously. nothing like a witch hunt to make the world go round.

I'm with Cloud (believe it or not). Appalling.

Who in particular is advocating this?

are they british citizens or foreign nationals?

"I do have to wonder why they're going to be tortured if they've done nothing." to make them confess obviously. nothing like a witch hunt to make the world go round.

Fair point there.

Mr. Mojo: I think it's only foreign-born persons, but even those who have legal British citizenship are on the potential lists.

Is this like the Red Scare?! o_o

"Who in particular is advocating this?"

the new national socialist labour government. the law is from the home secretary.

(and wasn't i meant to be banned from this forum? i'm confused to what has happened recently on here so sorry if the ban is still meant to be there.)

Is this like the Red Scare?! o_o
Yes. I don't see much of a difference between the Red Scare and this new "terror scare"

i think it's worse now. muslims are easier to spot than communists. racist attacks are bound to get more common. and so these laws will get more backing in a way as the supposed threat is more visible.

Is this like the Red Scare?! o_o
Yes. I don't see much of a difference between the Red Scare and this new "terror scare"

Yeah, it looked pretty similar. But...I guess it is worse, because this is now. We're supposed to haver evolved and be beyond this stuff. >=/ :rolleyes2

governments and the media will still have immense power over people's fear. look at the sun for instance. it openly supported the assualt of abu hamza in jail even though he has never been tried (not sure if he has infact been charged yet).

we are on a very slippery slope here. hatred of people will lead us down the same route germany went down. these laws are making the way for that.

i for one totally oppose this and i see my country becoming a police state and i will not tolerate it. i believe that if human rights continue to be breached in this country then there is only one solution to end this pattern.

It's sort of humorous (for a severe lack of a better word) to see England
doing basically the exact same things that the US did in reply to 9/11.

Yes, you do get deported, in a sense, in the US. Guantanamo Bay anyone?

.opt

we've tortured people before. we won't have a camp for it. we'll just do it in police stations and interview rooms.

or we'll just export them to countries that will torture them like we are doing now.

charles clarke said an interesting thing. he said that the human rights of the bombing victims come above these "preachers of evil". well first and foremost these people are not guilty of any crime and even if they were have not even been charged let alone tried. and as far as human rights go. he's wrong. all human rights apply equally to everyone. even if these people were guilty.

i personally believe that he needs to be got rid off asap. and if that means making him a martyr so be it. but he should not be in charge of this and is even more idiotic and oppressive than blunket ever was. and if saying that gets me shipped off to whatever place i am racially traced to be from so be it. dead or alive that man should have no say on anything.

What if these policies stop terrorist attacks?

What if these policies stop terrorist attacks?

Well, using the Red Scare as an example...it hardly ever does. In fact, if people start resenting what's happening to them, don't you think there's a higher chance that people would change to radical beliefs?

It's just an excuse, isn't it, to get the people out of the country? Perfect opportunity. Just accuse them of being involved in suspicious activities, and bam. Your move is justified. Oh, yes, maybe in a few years time, people will investigate it and find out that half the people deported were completely innocent and yadda yadda, but what can be done by then?

Im not waving my flag while smiling my way into this notion of what the goverment wants to do, you can out "To stop terrorist" infront of anything to try and justify it.

Well, using the Red Scare as an example...it hardly ever does. In fact, if people start resenting what's happening to them, don't you think there's a higher chance that people would change to radical beliefs?Well, Bolshevism was sent packing about 15 years ago.

I just hate the idea that our resistance to terrorism is causing terrorism. That's just plain corny. What should we do? Hug them? Invite more 'unpopular opinions?' If somebody is actually sitting on the fence, then I don't mind pushing them over.

<!--You know what Cloud. You're a lot better at pointing out problems than creating solutions. In fact with all your bitching threads I dont know if I can recall you saying something slightly creative. That says to me the people you constantly criticise are doing a hell of a lot more to better peoples lives than you are. Chances I havent read enough into your posts but thats the impression I get.-->*snip*

Personal attacks will get you a two week ban. ~ Leeza

Well, using the Red Scare as an example...it hardly ever does. In fact, if people start resenting what's happening to them, don't you think there's a higher chance that people would change to radical beliefs?Well, Bolshevism was sent packing about 15 years ago.

I just hate the idea that our resistance to terrorism is causing terrorism. That's just plain corny. What should we do? Hug them? Invite more 'unpopular opinions?' If somebody is actually sitting on the fence, then I don't mind pushing them over.

I'm not talking about the resistance to terrorism. If there's a terrorist in there, or someone indulging in suspicious terror-related activities, by all means, kick them out, do whatever. I'm talking about deporting people who are innocent.

Well, using the Red Scare as an example...it hardly ever does. In fact, if people start resenting what's happening to them, don't you think there's a higher chance that people would change to radical beliefs?Well, Bolshevism was sent packing about 15 years ago.

I just hate the idea that our resistance to terrorism is causing terrorism. That's just plain corny. What should we do? Hug them? Invite more 'unpopular opinions?' If somebody is actually sitting on the fence, then I don't mind pushing them over.

No, I get where you're coming from there. I have no problem with people who are actually trying to design or plan acts of terror being kicked out. But even if someone is advocating terrorism, there are no grounds for expelling them from the country. If someone says "The people who died on July 7th deserved it." you can bet I'd be the first in line to smash something heavy into their face, but I will absolutely under no circumstances say they should be kicked out of the country.

Aside from that, the problem is this basically gives the government carte blanch to kick out anyone who they don't like. "Eh, that dude's making trouble about our new ID card plan. Get him out of here." It's not a far stretch anymore, especially as the government are very fond of claiming the ID card scheme will help combat terrorism.