Appreciation

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/12/mideast.violence/index.html

Apparently, after Palestinians explode Israelis, they rush in and grab up as many body parts as possible, and then use those body parts as bargaining chips to get things from the Israelis, since a Jewish burial apparently requires an intact corpse. I've never heard anything QUITE this low; pretty close, but not quite.

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/133/world/Israeli_vehicle_destroyed_in_d:.shtml

Saed Abdullah, a 45-year-old father of six who lives near the site of Tuesday's explosion, said he and his children had spent hours hiding under beds as bullets penetrated the house, shattering windows and destroying furniture.

Soldiers stormed the house, locking the family into a room for more than five hours, Abdullah said. Then they used him and two other neighbors as ''human shields'' while they searched the neighborhood, he added.

I'm trying to understand the mindset of a society in which this kind of thing occurs on an apparently regular basis. Every day, I wake up and look out the window and I see a lot of people, a great many of whom are jerks, but all of whom are NOT exploding my house nor murdering my family nor using the body parts of my family to negotiate with their enemies, and I feel incredibly glad to live in the US.

Funny thing, according to the news, the response of the Israel goverment ended with six dead people.

Basically, for retrieving some corpses, six people more fell. Curious.

You have no idea how infuriating this is. I'd rather fight the Americans (hypthetically, of-course. They're our allies), than Arabs. The Americans would crush us - but I'm sure they wouldn't mutilate our dead boys' bodies, and then try to sell those body-parts to us. I sometimes think... what have we done to earn ourselves such a barbaric, primitive and cruel enemy?

Funny thing, according to the news, the response of the Israel goverment ended with six dead people.
It wasn't a response. Just another routine patrol, and cargo of explosives to destroy tunnels that are used for the tranferring armaments.

Basically, for retrieving some corpses, six people more fell.
We could handle a thousand dead. It'd be a tragedy, but at least they would've died with dignity, and we could give them the last grace of burial. But this... this is disgracing.

I just don't get these anymore. Are we trying to prove that Arabs are more barbaric by nature than the other people? As we have said in recent topics, people really can be crazy. When their nation has been deprived enough, there will be lunatics, there will be extremits who will do just anything just because of pure hatred and "defending" their homes and families ( or that's what they think). And we all know very well that people can monsters when driven by hatred.

what have we done to earn ourselves such a barbaric, primitive and cruel enemy?

I do know you live in Israel and I don't want or mean to offend you in any way, but I'm sure the majority of Palestinians are asking this same very thing.

Are we trying to prove that Arabs are more barbaric by nature than the other people?
Hey, they're the ones mutilating bodies and trading with the parts, decapitating innocents on camera and broadcasting it, and generally being extremely bloody. I don't even have to say anything.


I'm sure the majority of Palestinians are asking this same very thing.
I'm not questioning their motivation to fight us, or the Americans. I am merely wondering (in incredible disgust and anger) why are they doing all those horrible things.

Judging by what I've read in the papers etc (which I can only assume are more accurate than Israeli / Palestine papers):

Why? Because they want to be one up on the 'enemy' or 'bad guy' that kills their friends and family. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing was to happen in the other direction should the burial requirements be the same. In my opinion, there is now good side in the Israel-Palestine war. Both of them are just as bad as each other. They'll do whatever they can to be one up on their opponents. Just because one of them did get one up on the other doesn't mean the other doesn't have the desire to do the same to them by any means possible. It's amazing how the country which is considered holiest contains the people with the most unquenchable thirst to hurt another in every possible way.

That was well said, BoB.



Hey, they're the ones mutilating bodies and trading with the parts, decapitating innocents on camera and broadcasting it, and generally being extremely bloody. I don't even have to say anything.

Maybe you don't need to say more. I can see you've grown to dislike arabs. But have you ever thought what has driven these people so crazy, angry and desperate to commit such acts?

And these acts, have been made different groups of muslim/arabic people, and they are a very small percentage of peace-loving and kind arabic people.

Palestinians don't have many weapons in this war, and they're using everything they have. And as sad as it is, those weapons they have are suicide bombers, et cetera. And I don't think they're enjoying it generally, but I can imagine and almost understand that killing your enemies who has killed your family ( or something like that) can bring you a pleasure in some twisted level.

<i>But have you ever thought what has driven these people so crazy, angry and desperate to commit such acts?</i> --Mikztsu

I think that when you cross a certain level of brutality, the reasons are no longer relevant. Even the most sadistic killer in the world has reasons. There is just no excuse for certain acts.

<i>And these acts, have been made different groups of muslim/arabic people, and they are a very small percentage of peace-loving and kind arabic people.</i>

I agree with this, insofar as I (perhaps foolishly) believe that most people in the world are basically decent.

I think that when you cross a certain level of brutality, the reasons are no longer relevant. Even the most sadistic killer in the world has reasons. There is just no excuse for certain acts.

No. There are no excuses. But there are reasons. If you ignore these reasons, the problem won't go away.

I can see you've grown to dislike arabs.
Actually, on the personal level, my sentiments are the same as yours, as you've mention in another thread - I've found them to be warm, hospitable and kind people. But, as a people, in groups, and when in war... they go through some sort of freaky transformation. And, the actions speak for themselves.

but I can imagine and almost understand that killing your enemies who has killed your family ( or something like that) can bring you a pleasure in some twisted level.
Did the 82% of the Israeli casualties thus far, all civilians, have killed any Palestinians? No. And suicide bombers are used solely for the slaughter of innocents - and Israeli civilians are the prime target of the Palestinian Arabs. Also, killing your enemy is something I can understand and very much sympathise with, and I am not angry at the militants who killed our troops today. But I am appalled by the disgusting act of fetching all those body parts, and trying to trade with them. That's disgraceful, dishounourable, and thoroughly disgusting.

Why? Because they want to be one up on the 'enemy' or 'bad guy' that kills their friends and family. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing was to happen in the other direction should the burial requirements be the same. In my opinion, there is now good side in the Israel-Palestine war. Both of them are just as bad as each other. They'll do whatever they can to be one up on their opponents. Just because one of them did get one up on the other doesn't mean the other doesn't have the desire to do the same to them by any means possible. It's amazing how the country which is considered holiest contains the people with the most unquenchable thirst to hurt another in every possible way.
I just want to live here. The Palestinians want to kill me. It's a little different, when one side wants to live, and the other wants to kill. The Arabs don't want to just live here - otherwise, they would've found a peaceful solution with us by now - they also want us out of here, or dead. Which is basically the same thing, seeing recent events that happened to the world's Jewry.

If you ignore these reasons, the problem won't go away.
How about I just kill the problem?

How about I just kill the problem?

Do you have a Problem Stabbing Knife?

Do you have a Problem Stabbing Knife?
I have the Problem Buster 2000. :D

How about I just kill the problem?

I see that's worked just a treat now, hasn't it?

Apparently, after Palestinians explode Israelis, they rush in and grab up as many body parts as possible, and then use those body parts as bargaining chips to get things from the Israelis, since a Jewish burial apparently requires an intact corpse. I've never heard anything QUITE this low; pretty close, but not quite.
Back in the late 40s, when Britain was fighting against Palestinian militants in support of Israel, they used to wrap the corpses of fallen Palestinian fighters in pig skin - a complete and utter defilement of the enemy corpse, also preventing them from reaching the afterlife. It's a fairly comparable act, in my opinion.

The only difference is that the British actions encouraged militants to cease their attacks.

A big problem in the world is the unspoken sense of arrogance the more Westernized countries have towards those lesser developed ones. Granted, we do live in a more industrialized society and probably live healthier lives than most of the peoples in question, but we also seem to have a sense of superiority towards people who we deem savage or behind the times. This will only lead to more hatred amongst the various groupings of people.

No matter your culture, or how advanced you are, we're all people first and foremost, and we cannot judge one another strictly upon how one's lifestyle appears, but instead we should deem a person's worth upon how the person themself lives.

Take care all.

...and I feel incredibly glad to live in the US.

I would phrase it some more like "I feel incredibly glad not to live in the Middle East" because there are a dozen other countries which in my opinion are much less threatening to live in than America.


No matter your culture, or how advanced you are, we're all people first and foremost, and we cannot judge one another strictly upon how one's lifestyle appears, but instead we should deem a person's worth upon how the person themself lives.

I give you credit for maintaining that on a few different occasions because a lot of people seem to forget this.

It's horrible what this people do!

HAve they no shame!

They kill innocent people! And if they started to kill themselves«, it would be better for all the world!